Class

mms

sometimes
Where is kernshire do you live alo? i was born in st austell then brought up in truro, which recently has turned into a shit place full of snowheads in packamacs buying shit and all the shop keepers are stuck up to anyone under 40. That makes me mad. You're right about jobs and housing, i know a single mum with kids in a b and bs cos she can't get a council house down there, people who've lived there all their lives can't get shit.
 
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swears

preppy-kei
Luckily/interestingly/guiltily for me, my girlfriend has been due a massive inheritance from her family that had early fingers in supermarket pies (sold the business to Lord Sainsbury)
and links to Abraham Lincoln. Because of that we are jumping onto 'dry land' with a house.
Very very weird and morally hypocritical on my part.

That's my plan, marry a rich girl! :D
 

polystyle

Well-known member
Interesting , the American immigrants song ... ongoing as it is
Chris , reading your story - my Dad was first gen of his German family to get out of coal mining W Virginia.
You mention Bluegrass' - I dunno how many times I heard 'Foggy Mountain Breakdown' growing up. Later that was useful as I could tell Dad I was going off for the wkend to a 'Bluegrass Festival' thereby buying two - three days to do whatever debauchery we could.

The thread of having nature close by, as balm, as hiding place, dream space
sounds like an important impression on both sides of the pond ...

The Ukrainian's on my Mom's side in Newark/Elizabeth NJ had their industrial equivalant ,
I heard stories of our cousin the postman who used to relax after his rounds by swimming in the river by the docks, diving under the big boats to come up the other side.
Didn't come up on his last venture though

Alot of the open space , woods are of course now rows of indentikit houses,
Mcmansions line the N Va. back road now
Dreamless , by and large
 

Chris

fractured oscillations
You mention Bluegrass' - I dunno how many times I heard 'Foggy Mountain Breakdown' growing up. Later that was useful as I could tell Dad I was going off for the wkend to a 'Bluegrass Festival' thereby buying two - three days to do whatever debauchery we could.

Oh yeah, bluegrass was a huge presence in my childhood that I took for granted, didn't start appreciating it 'till five or so years ago. I still don't listen to it that often, but I think it's some of the most un-self conscious, "real" music I've ever heard, particularly the early mountain music stuff. Appalachians are the butt of a lot of jokes, but they really have a very beautiful, if sad culture... talk about lower class...


The thread of having nature close by, as balm, as hiding place, dream space
sounds like an important impression on both sides of the pond ...

Sure is for me... I'd probably go crazy if there weren't still a few pockets of untouched space to wander off in occasionally. It's hard for me to stress how important I think it is to still have some natural beauty around without sounding like a hippie, but I really think the gloom and indifference of the city and the stifling homogeny of the suburbs (and I'm only refering to the city's and suburbs' appearances) contribute to feelings of alienation and hostility among people... and nature provides one of the best escapes from that. But I digress...
 
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It feels like there was a lot of mobility possible in the 80s and 90s - you could get rich or lose everything... but now I think the middle class is being squeezed out. If you've got enough property you'll be OK. if you haven't you will be fucked. The children of middle class parents are encouraged to incur crippling debts to pay for a fairly worthless education, and then borrow on credit cards to buy the junk they think they need. Everything will be frittered away, and those with savings or pensions will find that inflation and the incredible rise in property prices has made a mockery of their prudence.
Leaving them all in wage slavery forever I suppose.
Maybe that's what middle class always was, I dunno.
I aspire to the leisure class.
:)
 

alo

Well-known member
Where is kernshire do you live alo?

In Falmouth at the minute, soon to be Penryn. I'm not really helping matters either: i was at Fal college you see, out-of-towner also. I ran out of money during college, got a job, could't afford to quit (and move) while I was clawing my way out of the overdraft and ended up staying. Stuck in Britain's secret lost economy, as such.
I've been jobless for the last 3 months and it was shit, especially as the wiff of recession looms, but even in work i can only ever afford food, rent and bills and thats it. How about you?
 

mms

sometimes
In Falmouth at the minute, soon to be Penryn. I'm not really helping matters either: i was at Fal college you see, out-of-towner also. I ran out of money during college, got a job, could't afford to quit (and move) while I was clawing my way out of the overdraft and ended up staying. Stuck in Britain's secret lost economy, as such.
I've been jobless for the last 3 months and it was shit, especially as the wiff of recession looms, but even in work i can only ever afford food, rent and bills and thats it. How about you?


i moved to london 10 years ago. you can live quite cheaply and healthily in cornwall and have fun. london is expensive, you may get paid more but it's not cheap, but cornwall isn't really a place i really want to live, although a bunch of friends have all moved back down, it's a wee bit to backwards for me, i like all the edgy london things, when i get the chance.
 
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martin

----
My dad was a tractor driver, brickie, JCB mechanic, deep sea diver and soldier (Irish Army) at various stages of his life. My mum was a housewife.

When I told my dad I wanted to become a journalist, back when I was 12, he gave me a filthy look and said "Journalism's full of queers". He might be spinning in his grave now.

I'm probably still WC as I still support strikes. My ambition's to be richer than ruling class.
 

alo

Well-known member
Love across the class divide

What about your minted girlfriend?

Apart from the fact that she makes me feel inadequate and not a 'real' man?
Well, its inheritance to investment, so if the house makes money and she cashes it in in a few years she might be minted.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I am a class warrior.

A middle class warrior.

SUN-DRIED TOMATOES AND CABERNET SAUVIGNON FOR ALL!!!!
 
Returning To Class

test_i000010.jpg


"If you ladies leave my island, if you survive
recruit training, you will be a weapon, you will
be a minister of death, praying for war. And
proud. Until that day you are pukes, you are
scumbags, you are the lowest form of life on
Earth. You are not even human. You people are
nothing but grabastic pieces of amphibian shit
."​


"It speaks volumes that in order for young working-class men and women
to gain self-confidence or self-worth, they seek to join an
institution that trains them how to destroy, maim, and kill. The
desire to become a Marine-as a journey to one's manhood or as a path
to self-improvement-is a stinging indictment of the pathology of our
class-ridden world
."


test_i000006.jpg


Learning to be a Lean, Mean Killing Machine

Structured Cruelty

By Sgt. Martin Smith, USMC, ret.


02/20/07 "Counterpunch" -- -- [http://www.counterpunch.org/]


I will never forget standing in formation after the end of our final
"hump," marine-speak for a forced march, at the end of the Crucible in
March, 1997. The Crucible is the final challenge during Marine Corps
boot camp and is a two-and-a-half day, physically exhausting exercise
in which sleep deprivation, scarce food, and a series of obstacles
test teamwork and toughness. The formidable nine-mile stretch ended
with our ascent up the "Grim Reaper," a small mountain in the hilly
terrain of Camp Pendleton, California. But what I recall most
was not the pain and exhaustion that filled every ounce of my
trembling body, but the sounds that surrounded me as I stood at
attention with eyes forward.


Mixed within the repetitive refrains of Lee Greenwood's "God Bless the
USA," belting from a massive sound system, were the soft and gentle
sobs emanating from numerous newborn Marines. Their cries stood in
stark contrast to the so-called "warrior spirit" we had earned and now
came to epitomize. While some may claim that these unmanly responses
resulted from a patriotic emotional fit or even out of a sense of
pride in being called "Marine" for the very first time, I know that
for many the moisture streaming down our cheeks represented something
much more anguished and heartrending.


What I learned about Marines is that despite the stereotype of the
chivalrous knight, wearing dress blues with sword drawn, or the green
killing machine that is always "ready to rumble," the young men and
women I encountered instead comprised a cross-section of working-class
America. During my five years in active-duty service, I befriended a recovering meth
addict who was still "using," a young male who had prostituted himself
to pay his rent before he signed-up, an El Salvadorian immigrant
serving in order to receive a green card, a single mother who could
not afford her child's healthcare needs as a civilian, a gay teenager
who entertained our platoon by singing Madonna karaoke in the barracks
to the delight of us all, and many of the country's poor and poorly
educated.

Marine Corps boot camp is a thirteen week training regimen unlike any
other. According to the USMC's recruiting website, "Marine Recruits
learn to use their intelligence . . . and to live as upstanding moral
beings with real purpose." Yet if teaching intelligence and morals are
the stated purpose of its training, the Corps has peculiar way of
implementing its pedagogy. In reality, its educational method is based
on a planned and structured form of cruelty. I remember my first visit
to the "chow-hall" in which three Drill Instructors (DIs), wearing
their signature "smoky bear" covers, pounced upon me for having looked
at them, screaming that I was a "Nasty Piece of Civilian Shit."

Our emerging group mentality was built upon and reinforced by tearing
down and degrading us through a series of regimented and ritualistic
exercises in the first phase of boot camp. Despite having an African
American and a Latino DI, recruits in my platoon were ridiculed with
derogatory language that included racial epithets. But recruits of
color were not the only victims, we were all "fags," "pussies," and
"shitbags." We survived through a twisted sort of leveling based on
what military historian Christian G. Appy calls a "solidarity of the
despised."

We relearned how to execute every activity, including the most
personal aspects of our hygiene. While eating, we could only use our
right hand while our left had to stay directly on our knee, and our
eyes had to stare directly at our food trays. Our bathroom breaks were
so brief that three recruits would share a urinal at a time so that
the entire platoon of sixty-three recruits could relieve themselves in
our minute-and-half time limit. Every evening, DIs inspected our boots
for proper polish and our belt buckles for satisfactory shine while we
stood at attention in our underwear ... These examinations were attempts to indoctrinate us with an emerging military masculinity that is based upon male
sexuality linked to respect for the uniform and a fetishization of
combat.


After the playing of Taps, lights went out. At which time, a DI would
circle around the room and begin moralizing. The DI's nightly homiletic speeches, full of
an unabashed hatred of women, were part of the second phase of boot
camp, the process of rebuilding recruits into Marines.


The process of reconstructing recruits and molding them into future
troops is based on building a team that sees itself in opposition to
those who are outside of it. After the initial shock of the first
phase of training, DIs indoctrinate recruits to dehumanize the enemy
in order to train them how to overcome any fear or prejudice against
killing. In fact, according to longtime counter-recruitment activist
Tod Ensign, the military has deliberately researched how to best
design training for how to teach recruits how to kill. Such research
was needed because humans are instinctively reluctant to kill. Dr.
Dave Grossman disclosed in his work, On Killing, that fewer than 20
percent of U.S. troops fired their weapons in World War II during
combat. As a result, the military reformed training standards so that
more soldiers would pull their trigger against the enemy. Grossman
credits these training modifications for the transformation of the
Armed Forces in the Vietnam War in which 90-95 percent of soldiers
fired their weapons. These reforms in training were based on teaching
recruits how to dehumanize the enemy.


The process of dehumanization is central to military training. During
Vietnam, the enemy in Vietnam was simply a "gook," "dink," or a
"slope." Today, "rag head" and "sand nigger" are the current racist
epithets lodged against Arabs and Muslims. After every command, we
would scream, "Kill!" We were told to imagine the "enemy" in all of our
combat training, and it was always implied that the "enemy" was of
Middle Eastern descent.

Even in 1997, we were being brainwashed to accept the coming Iraq War.
Abruptly interrupting a class, one of numerous courses we attended on
military history, first aid, and survival skills, a Series Chief DI
excitedly announced that all training was coming to a halt. We were to
be shipped immediately to the Gulf, because Saddam had just fired
missiles into Israel. Given that we lived with no knowledge of the
outside world, with neither TV nor newspapers, and that we experienced
constant high levels of stress and a discombobulating environment, the
DI's false assertion seemed all too believable. After a half-hour
panic, we were led out of the auditorium to face the rebuke and scorn
of our platoon DIs ... Our hatred of the Arab "other" was crafted from the very
beginning of our training through fear and hate.


With over 3,100 U.S. troops now dead and thousands more maimed and
crippled, I look back to the other young men I heard sobbing on that
sunny wintry morning on top of the Reaper. The reasons we enlisted
were as varied as our personal histories. Yet, it is the starkest
irony that the hope we collectively expressed for a better life may
have indeed cost us our very lives.

The war crimes committed by U.S. troops in Iraq, such as the brutality
exhibited at Mahmoudiya in which soldiers allegedly gang-raped a teen-
age Iraqi girl and burned her body to destroy the evidence, are, in
fact, part and parcel of all imperialist wars. The USMC's claim that
recruits learn "to live as upstanding moral beings with real purpose"
is a sickening ploy aimed to disguise its true objectives. Given the
fact that Marines are molded to kill the enemy "other" from TD One
(training day) combined with the bestial nature of colonial war, it
should come as no surprise that rather than turning "degenerates" into
paragons of virtue, the Corps is more likely capable of transforming
men into monsters.


And yet as much as these war crimes reveal about the conditions of
war, the circumstances facing an occupying force, and the peculiar
brand of Marine training, they also reflect a bitter truth about the
civilian world in which we live. It speaks volumes that in order for
young working-class men and women to gain self-confidence or self-
worth, they seek to join an institution that trains them how to
destroy, maim, and kill. The desire to become a Marine-as a journey to
one's manhood or as a path to self-improvement-is a stinging
indictment of the pathology of our class-ridden world.


Martin Smith is a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War and can be
reached at send2sm...@yahoo.com


test_i000007.jpg
 
All of which is terrible and i would have thought pretty obvious to most people on here, and also pretty irrelevant to the thread......
 

swears

preppy-kei
...also pretty irrelevant to the thread......


I don't think so, the working classes have been used as cannon fodder by the elite for centuries. Look at WW1, the aristocracy all automatically got cushy positions as officers.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Whether it's relevant or not, I don't think pasting huge reams of text into a post is all that clever.
Surely a link will suffice? Then we can follow it and read it if we want to.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I don't think so, the working classes have been used as cannon fodder by the elite for centuries. Look at WW1, the aristocracy all automatically got cushy positions as officers.

Although it's worth noting that in the middle ages and earlier, it was very common for the aristocracy, even kings and emperors, to fight in the front line. Sure, they might have had a better sword than the run-of-the-mill grunt, but they were up there giving it some with them. Harold Godwinson died at the battle of Hastings, for example.

I guess this would have become less and less common as the old 'heroic' societies of Europe gave way to the feudal system, and in turn to the early modern period. Although Richard III died in battle as late as 1485.
 
I don't think so, the working classes have been used as cannon fodder by the elite for centuries. Look at WW1, the aristocracy all automatically got cushy positions as officers.

yes but the thread is supposed to be about how members of this forum percieve and label themsleves in terms of class, I was interested in that, not about general "things that have some connection to class".

of course feel free to take the thread wherever you like but it's definitely a big old tangent.
 
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