Roiling football blather

[baboon2004]

True as regards Torres/Atletico.

I agree as regards the crowd going mental, but I just don't see why they're going that mental, to be honest. It all feels a bit like a Pavlovian response mechanism sometimes. Mind you, with Anfield, at least the stadium is still in the heart of the community (haven't been tot he Emirates yet, but I'll wager something was lost in the switch from highbury), which I think matters.

As regards a Spaniard/Scotsman playing for Liverpool - yeah, I think it does make a difference. As I say though, not complaining when the standard of football is this high, just don't get the sense of loyalty any longer.

Didn't realise that the lower leagues were in such a messed-up state. That's kinda sad.

I mean, say what you like about Ferguson, but his blooding of the Man U youth team in the mid-90s is the last time I can think of that elite football felt collective rather than mercenary. Suppose Wenger has kept that tradition going in his own, weird way though.

 

[scottdisco]

Torres and Casillas, legendary, loved Torres' reaction, as mentioned up thread, Atletico alumni.

i think Crackerjack has a point, i've seen Altrincham play a few Conference teams this year and Luton in the Cup, and i've seen Tranmere and Millwall games in One, and the passion off the pitch can be wonderful, it can be a fairly local atmosphere - but outward-looking localism in my limited experience if that wooly phrase will suffice, no necessarily parochial thing (generally smaller crowds have a higher proportion of people who know each other, obvious point i realise) - but, yes, potless clubs can rely on revolving doors quite a lot sometimes.

the reason why Rushden hammered Weymouth nine nil away in the Conference recently was because Weymouth had to bring in a gang of local teenagers, 16 and 17 y/o lads, as the seniors hadn't been paid for months, and scarpered to a man.
doubtless Weymouth will be scouting around for people ready to step up.

there are a smaller proportion of day-trippers outside the really big clubs in crowds, granted, i'm sure, but that doesn't signify anything negative to me, just an observation.

 

[baboon2004]

But wasn't Casillas pretty amazing? It genuinely could have been 7-0 if someone else was in goal (I know that's a cliche, but last night it was true).

Have Madrid ever been beaten 5-0 agg by anyone before?

 

[IdleRich]

"I agree as regards the crowd going mental, but I just don't see why they're going that mental, to be honest. It all feels a bit like a Pavlovian response mechanism sometimes."

Well, it's because the club is bigger than the players and the fans see the players as - normally short term - servants of that club and ultimately of the fans. They want to win at all costs and if they need to employ mercenaries then so be it.

 

[hucks]

Have Madrid ever been beaten 5-0 agg by anyone before?

In the late 80s they got beat 5-0 by AC Milan at the San Siro. Highlights here


I remember it cos we had a Spanish exchange kid in our class at the time and mocked him mercilessly. This, of course, was when English clubs were banned from Europe because their fans were violent, murderous bastards.

 

[baboon2004]

Yeah, remember that game now! Wasn't it 1989 semis (haven't checked the youtube link yet)?

Yes, the late 80s were not a golden time for English football.

 

[crackerjack]

But wasn't Casillas pretty amazing? It genuinely could have been 7-0 if someone else was in goal (I know that's a cliche, but last night it was true).

He's incredible. There's something genuinely exciting about watching a keeper who's brilliant at all the hard stuff (shot-stopping) btu a bit suspect on the basics (crosses, although he was fine there last night). best keeper since Schmeichel?

looking at that old Liverpool team reminds me of a question i've had for ages - what the fuck happened to Scottish football? 3 of the best players in europe in one team in 1984, now there are barely that number in the whole of the Premiership. Offhand, there's Hutton, a keeper at Sunderland... both in and out of the team...and it's not as if the good players are all staying in Glasgow. What went wrong?

 

[IdleRich]

"He's incredible. There's something genuinely exciting about watching a keeper who's brilliant at all the hard stuff (shot-stopping) btu a bit suspect on the basics (crosses, although he was fine there last night). best keeper since Schmeichel?"

Yeah, he's been around for ages but he's still young. He started playing for the first team at about seventeen didn't he?

 

[hucks]

He's incredible. There's something genuinely exciting about watching a keeper who's brilliant at all the hard stuff (shot-stopping) but a bit suspect on the basics (crosses, although he was fine there last night). best keeper since Schmeichel?

Surely it's the other way round? So many keepers are good at shot stopping - that's why they become keepers. Catching crosses, narrowing angles - ayou need to learn all that, and it's harder. Take Kuszszak at Man U - he's fanatastic shot stopper, but he's almost entirely rubbish at everything else. That's why VDS is the better keeper.

Edit: Casillas is amazing, not arguing with that. I think his all round game is pretty good, though I wouldn't say I was a student of it.

 

[crackerjack]

Yeah, he's been around for ages but he's still young. He started playing for the first team at about seventeen didn't he?

Think I first remember him against Utd in 2000 (that right?) - the commentators had him down as dodgy from the off cos he kept punching when he should've caught. Then there was this gradual realisation that actually it wasn't a coincidence he kept blocking all these shots.

 

[crackerjack]

Surely it's the other way round? So many keepers are good at shot stopping - it's the thing that marks you out as a keeper at school. Catching crosses, narrowing angles - that's trickier.

Hmm, maybe. But I think once you get to professional level the ability to command the box spreads confidence through the defence.

 

[baboon2004]

brilliant bit of play by Cech last night that went unnoticed by commentators. When he misjudged a Juve ball in in the first half, he didn't panic, looked around, and just palmed it over his head towards the sidelines, away from the oncoming Juve player, when the instinctive reaction would have been to punch into a potential danger area. Really, really smart and utterly safe.

 

[boombox]

I've always thought Casillas safe on crosses. Punching is not necessarily a sign of bad keeping. Most punches are when you can't be sure of getting a firm grip or a catch isn't actually possible.

My vote would go to Buffon as the best.

 

[baboon2004]

Did you SEE the hash Buffon made of that Drogba free kick (that may or may not have been in)? Utter gash. Ahem.

Very good keeper usually, mind.

 

[boombox]

No, I didn't. I just remember the seasons of utter brilliance at Parma and Juventus. They all make mistakes but he makes fewer than anybody.

 

[IdleRich]

"Surely it's the other way round? So many keepers are good at shot stopping - that's why they become keepers. Catching crosses, narrowing angles - ayou need to learn all that, and it's harder. Take Kuszszak at Man U - he's fanatastic shot stopper, but he's almost entirely rubbish at everything else. That's why VDS is the better keeper."

Yeah, I agree, see also David James - great shot stopper but when it comes to dealing with crosses he's like a vampire.

"I've always thought Casillas safe on crosses. Punching is not necessarily a sign of bad keeping. Most punches are when you can't be sure of getting a firm grip or a catch isn't actually possible."

Yeah, agreed, the trouble is, a lot of weak keepers do punch a lot so commentators assume that keepers who punch a lot are weak which doesn't follow.

 

[crackerjack]

I've always thought Casillas safe on crosses. Punching is not necessarily a sign of bad keeping. Most punches are when you can't be sure of getting a firm grip or a catch isn't actually possible.

But if a keepr punches when others would catch (which Casillas certainly used to do) that has to be a weakness, yes?

 

[crackerjack]

Yeah, agreed, the trouble is, a lot of weak keepers do punch a lot so commentators assume that keepers who punch a lot are weak which doesn't follow.

Not necessarily weak full-stop, but weak on crosses (or catching). It can hardly be an advantage for a team on the defensive to see the ball come straight back into play, often in a random direction since punches aren't easy to control, when the alternative is to take safe possession.

Obviously a punching keeper is preferable to one who habitually spills the ball at the feet of attckers, but keepers like that generally get dropped. Unless they're david james.

 

[tom lea]

buffon's the best for me. makes less mistakes than casillas, and i'd rather take a peno against the latter.

cech's been on fire since hiddink came in though- ditto terry, bosingwa and drogba. they must have had a rocket. can't say the same for ballack.

madrid looked pathetic. not as bad as us against united earlier in the season, but not far off. past rvn i don't think there's enough people in that team who win games on their own - robben, gago, ramos, schneider, vdv, marcelo, they're all the sorts to play well when the team's playing well but not when the chips are down. ramos might be the most overrated player in the world; he can't defend and he must miss at least nine games a year getting stupid suspensions. pool had big time luck with the dodgy first goal and the peno, but madrid weren't even worth a 3-0 defeat.

can't see past a united win tonight, whether jose's injury comment is true or not. can't see them not winning 2 out of the 3 competitions they're still in.

[edit: speaking of keepers, that boruc's had a right fall from grace this year. he's had some shockers.]

 

[crackerjack]

cech's been on fire since hiddink came in though- ditto terry, bosingwa and drogba. they must have had a rocket. can't say the same for ballack.

Good to see Essien score yesterday. I don't much like chelsea, but he's class.

pool had big time luck with the dodgy first goal

Would that be the vicious way he tapped his shoulder? That's what football needs - more free kicks for big men falling over under less contact you'd get in your average bus queue.