Logic 8 is out

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
... and it has oodls of new bells and whistles...

... and it's HALF the cost of the previous version, from 600 to 300.

And Logic Express now has all the instruments and - I think - all the FX.

Mental... sooooo tempting... what I really want is the tape delay an the compressors. Piss all over Cubase, the delay is even better than Live's. Love it.
 

nomos

Administrator
nope.

BUT.... upgrade from express 7 to the full studio is only CDN $299 ($199 academic!). and that includes soundtrack pro!
 

elgato

I just dont know
Sorry to derail a bit...

but

Does anyone have experience of both Logic and Reason? Ive been using Reason for a good few years now and know it pretty well, but am increasingly frustrated by the dynamics and sound. Obviously I know that big things can be done with it, but I find myself wondering whether to move on.

Therefore, a few questions if someone can help…

How much more difficult is Logic to use / learn?
How different are they conceptually? i.e. how much of my knowledge / skill set will be transferable?
How long will it take to pick it up?
How much difference will it make in the end?

Obviously I know these things will vary from person to person etc, and some of those questions are a bit silly, but any experiences would be greatly appreciated…
 
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nomos

Administrator
two things. first, i don't think there is an upgrade path from express to full. just as i wasgetting really excited.

now @ elgato. i've been using reason for a while and i know what you mean. i love programming rhythms in it but i'm always frustrated by some of its limitations. that's why i got logic express - so i could lay a foundation in reason and then slave it to logic, routing the audio from reason onto individual channels in logic where i'd do EQing, etc. and then add instrumental and recorded passages. getting that sorted out is a project for this winter though as i do find logic difficult to get my head around without heaps of time to devote to it. i'm also running ableton live where i can do the same thing but without logic's effects and instruments which, though they're audio units, aren't available to other host apps.
 

nomos

Administrator
sorry, didn't really address these..

How much more difficult is Logic to use / learn?
How different are they conceptually? i.e. how much of my knowledge / skill set will be transferable?
How long will it take to pick it up?
How much difference will it make in the end?
I find Logic to be pretty obtuse. I'm sure like Photoshop or similarly dense apps it all becomes second nature if you can devote a lot of time to it. If you could spend a few weekends with the manual and maybe tutorials you'll be well on your way. I haven't had the time and I'm stull lost when it comes to anything but the basics. And the difference in the end will depend on what you're looking for out of it. It seems that by routing Reason through it you could have a good deal more control over the characteristics of individual sounds. If that's all you're after then Live could also do the trick. And either would allow you to layer in longer sounds in ways that would be very awkward in Reason. But what makes me want Logic in the equation is the effects suite and the instruments.
 

elgato

I just dont know
edit... many thanks for the advice paul

i wrote this before i saw your second post...

its so annoying

cos the thing is i actually love reason, i find it mostly a joy to play with. but try as i might i struggle to get a thick or full sound. while to a degree this can be an advantage (in developing a sound which emphasises the plasticky artifice), i sometimes feel to produce something different, something less techy/overtly digital...

i also get frustrated by the lack of fx units. the synths i think you can do a ridiculous amount with, to the point where i dont know how much i need other vsts (especially given reports on Thor in v4), but the fx are limited (although again, Scream has brought a lot more to the table in terms of drawing out interesting textures)

i guess once i buy a new computer i could start rewiring (currently it struggles to hold up with just Reason running!), at least for mixing down, and that would provide a good compromise...

but its a lot of cash to just use it for mixdowns...
 
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nomos

Administrator
but its a lot of cash to just use it for mixdowns...
it certainly is. if i end up making the plunge to the pro version it would only be after selling off some vinyl and gear.

interesting what you said about programming and the 'sound' in Reason. i've found similar things. i actually started using it because everything i did in Live was coming out too thick and languid. i was having a lot of trouble programming riddims with any forward momentum. now, using Reason it's the opposite. the riddims really move but i'm having trouble getting the grain and timbres i want out of the individual sounds and the mix overall. hence the desire to rewire.

Logic and reason have no place on Dissensus.

Sorry. Couldn't help it.
:p
 

elgato

I just dont know
haha good one.

It’s a bit of a conundrum, its such a big leap of faith to invest in a new computer (although I guess I need to do that soon anyway) and a new programme…

Especially when I still need some decent monitors, and a keyboard…

Long

Monitors and keyboard have to come first I think

But yeh I do love Reason, I think it has a very unfair rep. Its so intuitive in terms of developing one’s understanding, I really rate the interface. And as you say, you can get tracks up and running so quickly. But as you imply the sequencer can be very irritating when programming grander aspects of tracks, and there continues to be this issue of thinness :/
 

nomos

Administrator
just watching some of the live 8 quick tours. that new all-in-one interface looks soo nice. you can sure see the impact that Ableton's super functional simplicity has had on the traditional (all palettes, sub-menues, and key commands) DAWs.
 

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
@ nomos: upgrade from express 6/7/8 to pro:

http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=6C04E115&nplm=MA801


'kin 'ell. Apple really wants to kill the other DAWS, including the new ones from SSL and Adobe.

I am liking the new one screen set up - yes, Live has had an influence! And there's most of the good bits from Cubase too, i.e. the inspector (which on cubase, doesn't show which fucking midi channel you're on unless you double click! aargh! I hate cubase...)

Reason is great - fantastic groove - but the sequencer is hard to use. Other DAWs should probably be OK.

I've never used Logic but on the Rubi Dan recording session I had to handle a logic rig without any help and managed to get it to record stuff properly so I don't think it's that hard.

I am really tempted by Logic 8 - even the Express version has everything I need! (Not sure I really need space designer, but I WANT ultrabeat and other instruments and fx.) But should I get Triology and something like FM7 instead?

What I really want, more than anything else, is a proper set of tuned, mapped 808 sine bass samples... anyone with suggestions? (I'm told Triology has it, but I don't see it on its patch list...)
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
Is Logic actually any more obtuse than Cubase? I got fucking familiar with Cubase, eventually most things became frighteningly easy to do...
 

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
No, it's probably more straight forward than cubase.

Didn't you find cubase just sucked all the funk out of your beats?

It's OK for basic audio mixing though.
 
This is interesting to me as someone who tries every now and then to make tracks on computers but then gives up and goes back to hardware stuff.

But I have had some success using Reason.
Here are a couple of things I found really useful to do -

move one or two sounds a bit out of time

add some really quiet white noise in the background

always have one or two sounds that aren't from Reason in the track - ie. i render my Reason track and then put the stereo track into Cubase and add a couple of live synths or handclaps or vocals or something - just to add a bit of "life".

Reason 4 should be coming my way this week so I'll try and let you know what it's like if anyone's interested.
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
No, it's probably more straight forward than cubase.

Didn't you find cubase just sucked all the funk out of your beats?

It's OK for basic audio mixing though.
I was using it in a very primitive kind of non-synth sample based format, with a lot of transformative editing and re-processing, pedantic assembling of beat patterns by hand in the sequencer stuff (and editing wave forms, mucking about with attacks on samples etc). Like anything it got a lot easier with time, but initially its very counter-intuitive.
 

nomos

Administrator
it hasn't got everything as far as i can tell. still no space designer, which i fell in love with doing a project in soundtrack pro. ultrabeat is there, which makes it a much more tempting environment to program riddims in. but others like sculpture and the vintage stuff are missing. "ducking" is listed under the dynamics section in the tech specs. is that the same as side chaining?

http://www.apple.com/logicexpress/specs/
 
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