the nuum back lash

[Dr Venom]

I can't remember if I have typed this thought before but for me everything past Grime is Rave music eating itself. It came to the end of the line with Dubstep (the death of rave.)

If you think of modern art and an analogy....

Impressionism>Pointillism>Fauvism>Cubism>(say)Neo-Plasticism>Minimalism = Pop Art/Post Modernism/Neo-Expressionism.

If your not familiar with art type each of those movements into a search engine, its crudely chronological but it shows a pattern of reductionism. In my thoughts, Dubstep is the final reduction of the darkside strain. Kode 9 Feat Daddy G- Sign of the Dub is say Barnett Newmans zip paintings (thats one white line on a Black canvas) It is the end of the line for the contiuum.

Most people on this post aint arguing that the theory fits Hardcore>Jungle>etc... up until Grime and Bassline and the new stuff. What I am saying is that the theory ends with dubstep. Grime and bassline and funky are underground dance music's entry to post-modernism.

 

[Dr Venom]

And post-modernism in art is when it all got very fucked up and exciting.

 

[Mr. Tea]

And post-modernism in art is when it all got very fucked up and exciting.

"It's just people being weird for the sake of being weird."

 

[sodiumnightlife]

I'm wary of ever saying something died, I'd rather say that hardcore got reduced to its barest point somewhere in 06/07 with dubstep. I think it was a good place to go, but if you look at it, dubstep's been swinging back/away from that point for a while now. In a sense it knocked everything down and is building something new in its place. Of course, if we're to extend this architectural metaphor any further then I'd have to involve the concept of architectural memories, and I'd start to sound like Geoff Manaugh, but you get the idea.

 

[swears]

Postmodernism, again!

Hasn't hardcore always been postmodern? In the sense that sampling allowed loads of recognisable sonic signifiers to be piled on top of each other (amen breaks, chipmonk vocals, movie dialogue, etc...) and how that made it a more vulgar, populist movement than the original acid house scene? (Acid as Bauhaus, Hardcore as Venturi's Las Vegas)

 

[subvert47]

sorry, but...

"nuum"

 

[Dr Venom]

Humm... yes true, but I would argue that it is not the post-modernism not of being self-aware/ironic/banal but the good type of post-modernism that is aware of all before it, appriciates all before it, embraces eclecticism as a method of seeking new sounds.

There are many different meanings for the word obviously but think of it like post-modern in the architectural sense. Post-Continuum would be a better term.

DJs on the other side of things like Sinden and Tapedeck etc already prove this with their mash-up sets of a range of genres, bootlegs and cut-ups. They are non-specific genre defined DJs who with the aid of new technology (The +50 pitch CDJ, Ableton, cheap sequencers, easy acapellas, wide and free mp3 music collections) who embrace a range music in their sets. Although not strictly part of the nuum scenes these guys when I speak to them have usually been raised on Jungle/UK Garage onwards.

You are already seeing grime becoming less tempo constricted as vinyl dies its slow death. This is a good thing for me because it opens up new possibilities new flows and new avenues.

 

[mms]

sinden is signed to domino now weirdly - i say weirdly as he's really quite awful - bootleg culture - except maybe the first few richard x things always seemed pretty devoid of anything really.

i don' think vinyl and tempos have much to do with each other, it's not law that you mix records alot of djs don't mix at all on any format.

 

[Gavin]

You are already seeing grime becoming less tempo constricted as vinyl dies its slow death. This is a good thing for me because it opens up new possibilities new flows and new avenues.

How much of grime is/was vinyl-based? It's hard to judge across the pond since so few grime records make it over here.

 

[mms]

How much of grime is/was vinyl-based? It's hard to judge across the pond since so few grime records make it over here.

it was earlier on - expensive white labels, but it was also cd packs and dvd too.
it's less vinyl based now although there is still quite a bit around and alot of cd mixtapes.

 

[joe_muggs]

I can't believe that anyone argues pro- or anti-"nuum". As it originally stood it was a tracing of A line of connection between several quite diverse musical sounds. That is A line that connects SOME qualities of the music and surrounding culture. Not THE essence of the bloody music. It's a good and interesting way of connecting stuff but by no means the only one, so I don't understand why so many people are treating like some mega brand that is to be venerated or debunked.

BUILD YOUR OWN NUUM!! There have been lots of v interesting suggestions re the African influence on current music - there's one continuum right there, one that could be interestingly linked to the whole Afrofuturist Kodwo Eshun Rammellzee Lee Scratch Perry Sun Ra Parliamentfunkadelic Detroit Techno Jungle 4 Hero 'thing'. Or what about a House Continuum? After all, Grooverider always used to say "it's all House music to me". Or a funk continuum? Or a class continuum? Or a UK Bass continuum that links all this modern music back through Meat Beat Manifesto, Sherwood, Bovell etc? All of these run through the same set of records, why not trace these shifting lines and their intersection rather than fixating on one way of looking at the music and culture?

 

[luka]

I've said it before, you can't get a handle on where Grime came from without looking at things like hip-life and kuduru, and the huge increase in west African migrants to London over the last 10 years.

http://dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=1052

 

[zhao]

thanks for pointing out the thread Luka, i hadn't seen it before. a good read and contains some good 411 from sufi and others... and i thought i was the only one excited by the idea of afro-dubstep... i posted that Hip-Life track which sounds a bit grimy...

 

[Ach!]

Nicky Slim Ting from East Co featuring in Kool FM documentary (3m00s) at the age of 16, representing as an avid jungle fan = hardcore continuum:

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[Ach!]

Some more Slim Ting at the beginning of part 3:

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[luka]

yeah, no ones really addressed ach!s point, and its the clincher really. which i guess is why its been ignored.

 

[stelfox]

sinden is signed to domino now weirdly - i say weirdly as he's really quite awful - bootleg culture - except maybe the first few richard x things always seemed pretty devoid of anything really

he's a thoroughly nice chap, though, and does quite a lot more than bootleg stuff. also, one of the guys from radioclit works for domino and they're good friends, so that signing is not altogether surprising.

the main problem with the nuum is that it's been stretched way too thin, prompting altogether more sensible responses like this. i don't really agree with jace, but i see where he's coming from and there's a hell of a lot less wooly conjecture and massive theoretical over-reaching to his ideas than there are in mark's piece. the reality is that hardcore continuum does exist, but is itself just a small section of a much bigger lineage: british reinterpretations of reggae and soundsystem culture.

 

[mms]

he's a thoroughly nice chap, though, and does quite a lot more than bootleg stuff. also, one of the guys from radioclit works for domino and they're good friends, so that signing is not altogether surprising.

the main problem with the nuum is that it's been stretched way too thin, prompting altogether more sensible responses like this. i don't really agree with jace, but i see where he's coming from and there's a hell of a lot less wooly conjecture and massive theoretical over-reaching to his ideas than there are in mark's piece. the reality is that hardcore continuum does exist, but is itself just a small section of a much bigger lineage: british reinterpretations of reggae and soundsystem culture.

i should take that back actually as some of the herve stuff is great.
i heard a record just this week with herve, switch etc that's just brilliant.

 

[Grievous Angel]

Agree with Stelfox and Polz re Ach's point - it's not that the ardkore continuum doesn't exist or is a bad model, but that it gets stretched too thin.

Increasingly, and irritatingly, to argue that "grime is dead" - usually by some know nothing hipster who hasn't listened to grime since it stopped being trendy in ShoHo.

Agree about Last Night a DJ Saved My Life - great book, would like to catch the updated version and compare and contrast with the new Energy Flash.

 

[Slothrop]

Agree with Stelfox and Polz re Ach's point - it's not that the ardkore continuum doesn't exist or is a bad model, but that it gets stretched too thin.

Increasingly, and irritatingly, to argue that "grime is dead" - usually by some know nothing hipster who hasn't listened to grime since it stopped being trendy in ShoHo.

Yeah, exactly.

I think the two biggest gripes are
a) the continued privileging of the hardcore continuum as an important and self contained thing versus any distinct or bigger narratives in UK music, which made sense circa Energy Flash if only as a corrective measure but has kind of run out of steam now and
b) people putting the theoretical cart before the musical horse, simplifying and generalizing their description of the music and prejudicing their appreciation of it to fit it to their theoretical grand narrative.

Have we had a counter-backlash yet? There doesn't seem to be any response from K-Punk or the Blissblogger...