yeah I love this element adding to the energy, where one guy will go to jump in and just get pushed back
Juke
- Thread starter synaptic
- Start date
yeah I love this element adding to the energy, where one guy will go to jump in and just get pushed back
alright mate jungle comes from ghetto house whatever you say or is that a metaphor, hmm..
there are so many caveats in your argument its like swiss cheese though, plus you keep on changing it. All i'm just trying to do is get down to the nitty gritty , some facts and continuation, rather than this vagueness, it's not having a go at you or whatever, i've not been rude to you...but your arguments are a bit vague here, you even pretty much say so yourself, with yr chat of 'broad sense' and 'metaphor' and house music not being acoustic folk really, regardless of what you think of my punctuation lol.....
if you had said all this music partly stems from house and techno course i would agree but yr not really saying that, plus you're ignoring things ive written to build your argument regardless..
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do other parts of the states have this kind of competitive dancing, i know you have uprocking etc, but are jitting and hyphy stuff competitive, do they do that dancing in a circle too, or is it more or less just a chicago thing ?
Also when and what kinda time did people switch from just dancing to music in a club to footwork in the circle, did the dance adapt to the music or the music adapt to the audience?
Also who are the crews are they school mates, little gangs of kids etc?
Also when and what kinda time did people switch from just dancing to music in a club to footwork in the circle, did the dance adapt to the music or the music adapt to the audience?
Also who are the crews are they school mates, little gangs of kids etc?
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soul_pill
Well-known member
Also, having noticed the coincidental sonic parallels between breakbeat hardcore and footwork tracks (pitched up vocal samples, accelerating tempos, sub bass), and having been told (only by one source, admittedly) that the kids who attend 'juke parties' take pills, do you think that ecstasy has influenced the sound and the tempo of how footwork and juke have evolved musically? Do you know of dancers taking pills? or is this just misinformation and a red herring...
Can we have this in here?
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wise
bare BARE BONES
nah fuck off wise it wasn't clear at all, thats why i tried to reason what he was saying
i'm not the one being the prick here, sadly he's not answered without being over defensive and personal, he's only just got round to saying kind of what he means too.
i've also dropped it so butt out.
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Benny Bunter
Well-known member
2 rather crass comparisons to juke
At 1:15 in this the dude momentarily turns into Michael Jackson! Amazing.
Actually given how (admirably) pretentious a forum Dissensus is, I'm quite surprised no-ones compared footworking to Jazz yet. The improvisation, virtuosity and spontaneity in the dancing made me think of it from the first time I saw a Footworking video on youtube.
Get me!
At 1:15 in this the dude momentarily turns into Michael Jackson! Amazing.
Actually given how (admirably) pretentious a forum Dissensus is, I'm quite surprised no-ones compared footworking to Jazz yet. The improvisation, virtuosity and spontaneity in the dancing made me think of it from the first time I saw a Footworking video on youtube.
Get me!
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Different regions have different dances. In northern california where hyphy is popular, a super awesome better dance is around that actually revived my love for hip hop, turfin. The actual youtube page for this video is one of the best archives of various dance battle cultures battlin against each other.
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And I have yet to see something as freeflowing as footworking. There's no buzzer, no one really on the mic that often, and the only time the music really stops is when the power goes out. But b-boys, jitters in Detroit, turf dancers, memphis buckin folks all got their own dance cultures. And most often, the circle gets as small as humanly possible. People wanna see, so they inch closer and closer to get the best view...until someone gets hit in the face with a shoe, haha.
As for the switch to footworking, it really depends on what is playing. Luckily, most hip hop nowadays is at 80 bpm, so switching to a 160 bpm track is incredibly easy..and that's when you get people booty shakin...and eventually, you'll get the tracks that make people wanna footwork. It really depends on the party you go too, stuff like Battlegroundz and Warzone is 100% dedicated to footworkers, so they don't have to wait in a party for 3 hours to hear a 30 minute juke mix that they could dance too.
And the footwork groups are diverse as hellllll. Some are just high school buddies, some are lifelong friends that all knew what they were doing, and there are some you have to audition to get in. And I've seen people at the age of 35 footworking, so it only re-affirms the point that it's not just some youth thing, it's truly something of the community. A lot of the early groups like House-O-Matics (the name alone gives you an idea of how much this stuff is a descendant of house music), have changed up their image a bit, but a lot of their former members are still involved with the community in various forms. Rp Boo, Spinn, and Rashad all came from House-O-Matics, but Boo created Gutta Thugz, and Spinn & Rashad joined Wolf Pac. Wolf Pac is still around, and their members are all aroudn the age of 21-25. The head of Terra Squad, AG, learned a lot from House-O-Matics leader, Ant Brown, as well as members of Wolf Pac like Que. It's completely complex, but believe me when I say that there's plenty of love, and the groups of old are still around not just passing on moves, but trying to maintain such an amazing culture.
Now on to soul_pill's point:
that the kids who attend 'juke parties' take pills, do you think that ecstasy has influenced the sound and the tempo of how footwork and juke have evolved musically? Do you know of dancers taking pills? or is this just misinformation and a red herring...
I know people get drunk at parties, I know people smoke weed at parties...but ecstasy is probably not the best thing to do at either a juke or footwork party. You need as much energy as possible, and if you're doing footworking, there's no way in hell you can footwork while on X. I'm sorry, I just don't see that shit happening, haha. And there's a few tracks talking about rolling, poppin pills and ish like that, I even know a few dancers who pop pills, but not when it comes time to be on the dance floor, it just doesn't make any sense. Footworking is one of the most energy consuming dances out there. You're literally hitting stuff at 160 bpm nonstop, and you're in a battle mentality...rolling just doesn't happen.
And like I said, some tracks are made while people are high, as seen in this video:
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but this really isn't rave music to us at all. I know a few people who've played footwork tracks to rave parties, and people loved the hell out of it, but out here, it's really not the case.
this actually reminds me of my first time really listening to chicago house music. I was with a whole bunch of mid-30 year old black men who could not stop talking about women, calling some people faggots, and other words like that, but they were listening to house and disco music! it was the most puzzling scene in my life, but I realized then that this music was appropriated by the gay community, as well as the european community, and the black influence and innovations in house music were virtually unknown, even to myself! But yeah, thats a lil off subject.
Finally, I wanted to bring up this point:
Actually given how (admirably) pretentious a forum Dissensus is, I'm quite surprised no-ones compared footworking to Jazz yet. The improvisation, virtuosity and spontaneity in the dancing made me think of it from the first time I saw a Footworking video on youtube.
We actually have been talking to the Floor Technicians, and were supposed to create some battle while the guys were in Europe. As I mentioned before, Rashad was a footworker, so it would have been awesome. However, the UK immigration department had their own ideas.
But really, the jazz fusion scene is extremely similar to ours. Both cultures were gully as hell, and both cultures came out of the disco/house scene. Whats amazing is that footwork culture now is starting to appropriate a lot of the tracks and influences that made the uk jazz scene. for instance, roy ayers, lonnie liston smith, mandre, and dexter wensel are all things that have made footwork tracks as of late either more soulful, more jazzy, or more synthy. To go back to where I was talking about rave music, a lot of our style now is going back to more spacey jazz sounds. Its actually amazing to me to see new up and coming producers actively digging through crates, and despite the fact I'm 23, going through my massive record collection to try and find jazz breaks. It's reallllllllllllllllly amazing to see a revival of the crate digging culture!!!!!!!
Aight people, it's 4:38 am here, I'm goin back to sleep!
Benny Bunter
Well-known member
I'd never heard of the Floor technicians before until you mentioned them nazeem, so I had a look on youtube. The similarities are quite uncanny! Doesn't look very Gully though...
To be honest I had just made a more abstract connection in my head between footworking and someone like Tony Williams playing drums in the 60s and 70s!
To be honest I had just made a more abstract connection in my head between footworking and someone like Tony Williams playing drums in the 60s and 70s!
BTW, why the hell does everyone spell my name wrong?! I'd understand if I said it to you and asked you to write it down, but it's written right there! Plus, it's not like you guys are cutting out letters to make your life easier, you're adding an extra E!
QUIT THE BULSHIT PEOPLE!
hahaha
QUIT THE BULSHIT PEOPLE!
hahaha
Richard Carnage
Well-known member
yeah house was mainly initially developed gay black and latino men, as a kind of development out of disco - i think thats generally acknowledged, even if house is now seen as something that laidback luke does or invented - in america anyway ( pukes). Brits have always had a love affair with black music from the mid west of USA i reckon - i went into that earlier.
for non englishers above is a picture of english boxer prince nazeem...
re: jazz dancing - its not really pretentious to raise that point it looks like jazz dancing to a point, but to me it seems footwork is as much about battling the rhythms you get chucked at you as each other, keeping up with it - jazz dancing is more about keeping sharp inside the music, having it in the pocket.
Similarly grime at its most exciting has an element of battling against the music too, freestyling and coping with whatever's thrown at you.
for non englishers above is a picture of english boxer prince nazeem...
re: jazz dancing - its not really pretentious to raise that point it looks like jazz dancing to a point, but to me it seems footwork is as much about battling the rhythms you get chucked at you as each other, keeping up with it - jazz dancing is more about keeping sharp inside the music, having it in the pocket.
Similarly grime at its most exciting has an element of battling against the music too, freestyling and coping with whatever's thrown at you.
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Nice way to drop it. You know, explaining something to someone when they seem to insist on stubbornly misreading the intent behind what you say is not being 'over defensive', and trying to accommodate that person's apparent viewpoint is not adding caveats to an 'argument'. Possible mild irritation expressed in very moderate language at this is not exactly getting 'personal' either.
And I didn't 'just get around to saying', I explained something right then. Briefly because I didn't want to drag out what seemed like a minor but still genuine misunderstanding. Was also typing on a mobile tbh. You want to endlessly nitpick unless it's all spelled out every time, that's up to you. I know what Jungle is, and I know what House music is ffs. I'm quite sure most people posting here do. In a similar spirit of pettiness I might ask where you were when Jungle was emerging? 17 and living in Cornwall is it? I was 22 and a London native. Now of course this doesn't matter, and it pisses me off to even have to say something like that (especially with the ages involved), but your 'disagreements' there come over as disingenuous and dully didactic.
/bullshit
So yes, parallels in the way two 'gutter' musics (better term maybe, still not great but let's not get too hung up on or offended by terms when we know what people mean) developed in underground scenes, and at that into styles with some sonic and rhythmic correspondences. Some Juke tracks have similarities to some Grime as well clearly. I think it's relevant to this trans-atlantic conversation to at least note things like that in passing. Maybe it's not that interesting, I don't know.
Naturally I don't dispute the line from House to Juke, but degrees of direct 'lineage' aren't the same as observable parallels in sound, or even on other similarities in circumstances of origin. That's what I was pointing to. Anyway House (and Disco, and Funk) motifs and samples are still used in D&B, and were in Jungle. But it's still beside the point.
...
I mentioned Jazz-dance btw, maybe it came up earlier as well. Noted how the 80s Jazz-dance thing fed into Acid-house and Rave, and indeed from there into Jungle, as it happens. It's interesting and heartening in an odd way to see those parallels, which is why I would bring any of it up in the first place.
Another thing, skinny jeans in some those vids? Better for displaying fast leg movements?
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Nice way to drop it. You know, explaining something to someone when they seem to insist on stubbornly misreading the intent behind what you say is not being 'over defensive', and trying to accommodate that person's apparent viewpoint is not adding caveats to an 'argument'. Possible mild irritation expressed in very moderate language at this is not exactly getting 'personal' either.
And I didn't 'just get around to saying', I explained something right then. Briefly because I didn't want to drag out what seemed like a minor but still genuine misunderstanding. Was also typing on a mobile tbh. You want to endlessly nitpick unless it's all spelled out every time, that's up to you. I know what Jungle is, and I know what House music is ffs. I'm quite sure most people posting here do. In a similar spirit of pettiness I might ask where you were when Jungle was emerging? 17 and living in Cornwall is it? I was 22 and a London native. Now of course this doesn't matter, and it pisses me off to even have to say something like that (especially with the ages involved), but your 'disagreements' there come over as disingenuous and dully didactic.
/bullshit
So yes, parallels in the way two 'gutter' musics (better term maybe, still not great but let's not get too hung up on or offended by terms when we know what people mean) developed in underground scenes, and at that into styles with some sonic and rhythmic correspondences. Some Juke tracks have similarities to some Grime as well clearly. I think it's relevant to this trans-atlantic conversation to at least note things like that in passing. Maybe it's not that interesting, I don't know.
Naturally I don't dispute the line from House to Juke, but degrees of direct 'lineage' aren't the same as observable parallels in sound, or even on other similarities in circumstances of origin. That's what I was pointing to. Anyway House (and Disco, and Funk) motifs and samples are still used in D&B, and were in Jungle. But it's still beside the point.
...
I mentioned Jazz-dance btw, maybe it came up earlier as well. Noted how the 80s Jazz-dance thing fed into Acid-house and Rave, and indeed from there into Jungle, as it happens. It's interesting and heartening in an odd way to see those parallels, which is why I would bring any of it up in the first place.
Another thing, skinny jeans in some those vids? Better for displaying fast leg movements?
who cares - this could go on forever but i don't give enough of a fuck to carry on arguing with stupid people on the internet., i'm interested in the music not you.
I've got too much to do, although the fact that you trawled thru dissensus to dig some 'dirt' on me just so you could say you're older and you come from london when i was in cornwall is fucking funny - you buggered that story up too.
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