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Well we've got someone at the heart of the government advocating eugenics, brain-enhancing drugs for children, and mandatory coils for newly pubescent underclass children. Is it even in the shadows now?

And there's High Anglican Andrew Sabisky, one of Cumming's 'weirdos' My friends was telling me the other month that the 'High Anglicans' wield a lot more power in the UK than you might think. Though we were slightly toasted and listening to Eurodisco, so I didn't pursue the idea further.

What a load of noncesense.

That's arguable. Less arguable is that he enables his daughter to evangelise it.

This was the original point I was agreeing to. If being 'Peak Barcelona' isn't going to be enough (and Labour aren't even Liverpool under Graham Souness at the moment - I just aged myself), then it is time to stop giving legitimacy to the system. I am not saying that that is sufficient...

I wouldn't go so far as to call it foolproof but I think it's probably the best option.

Welcome back Luka.

I think it's partly because chicken shops in USA often don't really do fries. KFC in USA started doing them last year, with the original recipe chicken seasoning.

Not being part of the solution is not as bad as becoming part of the problem.

I didn't leave the left, the left left me!

tbf if you're in the chicken shop they're generally called chips. Even though they are fries. Unless it's a fish and chip shop that sells fried chicken.

Precisely. I don't think I'm unwilling to empathise with the Brexiteers. But ultimately I'm not seeing anything 'fruitful' from the 'accepting they were basically right is the key to learning from the loss' position. There's no election until 2024 almost certainly, and the damage they can do...

It's a false binary. Ha, that's going to annoy you. OK, basically you are asserting that if you don't have complete and total understanding of something, whatever level of understanding you do have is irrelevant. That's complete and utter bollocks. It's not even thinking.

I think I've dealt with that issue in a previous post, but I'll go further: there is an issue with things like the Treaty of Lisbon etc but I think Remainers have addressed this: whilst one can certainly debate deeper integration and now successive UK governments have handled it, 1) that tells...

Yes, but you could not blatantly misrepresent people as well.

Whilst we have lost, there are degrees of losing and the game, to some extent, is still being played. What is notable is how this 'accepting we lost' seems to mean accepting Brexiteer talking points (e.g. Brexit has happened). It feels like you're another 20cl of vodka away from loving Boris...

That's a blatant strawman, but putting that to one side I'm not sure what anybody has said that's particularly useful - not that I particularly want to hold them to a standard, but given you have brought it up......

One should, I think, remember that if 2% of the voters went the other way things would have been very different. So even if your suggestion is true (it isn't), what really matters was the swing voter. People are essentially pluralistic. They liked the idea of this 'taking back control' stuff...

The basic gist though is Johnson/Cummings wanted full control of the purse strings and Javid's Randian tendencies were very much in the way. I didn't think Javid would survive the year though I admit to being surprised he was culled this fast.

I think Pearson was based on Steve Hilton as much as anyone.