The Middle East/Islam as a trope in electronic music

muser

Well-known member
I dont understand why exoticism is in any way inherently bad, whether the person has decided to learn every modal scale and progression or if they have just used a few random instruments or sounds/samples. Its kind of natural, its not just the west that get excited by hearing different melodic, tonal, instrumental sounds interspersed with their own sounds. Just look at how rock & Roll completely took over east-asia in 60-70's, Hip-hop across the world, dancehall, whatever. Would you be discussing if oriental exoticism in Jamaican roots reggae is bad?

purely sampling wise, the only reason i get put off is if its done in a particualry cliche or boring way. But it seems ridiculous that if you (sorry for picking on whoever said this) need to have some deep passion for kung fu films to sample a kung fu flick, why? How does that affect the musical piece in anyway, it still sounds exactly the same. No Kung-fu director is going to give a fuck unless the maybe want some royalties out of it.

Generally tbh I think the idea of musical or artistic integrity is nonsense, once you start to unravel it, you'll never find anything "pure".. But like how if food is packaged well it tastes better, if an artist creates a good aesthetic (as people have kind of said) you going to get more involved in what they are making and enjoy it more, whether that aesthetic is some kind of exoticism or if its using 3d rendering programs from the 80's.
 

muser

Well-known member
then theres artists souping up baile funk, kuduro and making it hip for middle-class white kids etc which is a entirely different kettle of fish and pretty off topic.

Incidentally I have been loving the Fatima Al Qadiri stuff very much
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Does Allah pray though?

Can't listen at work but I'm guessing it's a totally different song from this one


Or indeed Mustapha Dance by The Clash.
 

bassbeyondreason

Chtonic Fatigue Syndrome
Not strictly "electronic" music, but I love the way Savage Republic used this stuff as a more-or-less content-free symbol of American fear. Thinking particularly of the cover of "Tragic Figures": http://s.discogss.com/image/R-1619291-1232564166.jpeg
Nothing to do with the middle east as such, more about how that imagery will impact a Western audience (I guess an updated, slightly clever version of the punk swastika).
And in a cartoon thrash-punk context, there was Fearless Iranians from Hell.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
need to have some deep passion for kung fu films to sample a kung fu flick, why?

that was me, but that ain’t at all what I actually said. it ain’t that you “need” passion, like a prerequisite, to sample something. it’s that your level of engagement w/the source material will be reflected in the quality of your art. and as a rule of thumb the more invested you are the better your art is. it’s all just another way of saying lazy sampling produces bad music. the original question wasn't is this bad, it was is this Orientalism? two different things. exoticism isn't inherently bad, it's inherently exoticism. exoticism can then itself be good or bad.

Would you be discussing if oriental exoticism in Jamaican roots reggae is bad?

given the large number of Chinese Jamaicans involved in roots reggae, probably not, no
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
one other thing too - I don't know if anyone is actually advancing this seriously, but eff this notion that the ultimate consideration is just is something good or not. there’s plenty of things that are good or even great art but equally indefensible on other grounds. i.e. The Heart of Darkness.

And in a cartoon thrash-punk context, there was Fearless Iranians from Hell

they had an Iranian (or Iranian-American) singer. also at the time it was super-topical (see also: Reagan Youth). good band.

I've always thought of Savage Republic as a poor man's 23 Skidoo, which is still a pretty good thing to be. coincidentally they exemplify some of the questions form this thread in many ways. Tragic Figures leans heavily on Africa as a contextual tool

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/r3KoW9WiY1A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

also, this

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QPJWeRiRomU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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muser

Well-known member
given the large number of Chinese Jamaicans involved in roots reggae, probably not, no

But there are & still were Jamiacan producers/musicians doing it which arnt really involved in the music or culture. Going to my original example with roots.. Ernest Ranglin the guitarist for a random example had alot of orientalism in his pieces, it was very dumbed down, just a few notes here and there, song titles etc, I doubt he asked a chiney for advice on how to incorporate some "chinese flavour" (as if it isnt a massive disparate wealth of very different musics). Same as someone in London using some vague approximation of what sounds middle-eastern to them in their own music.

But as you say Exoticism can be good or bad,.. so when is it bad? Just when you dont like the sound of it?.. or for some other deeper cultural/moralistic reason?
 
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UFO over easy

online mahjong
I guess when I say "engage" I don't mean just tasteful, muso appreciation (though you can do that) I mean engage like it has to somehow be a two-way conversation... actually good v. bad taste, w/all the underlying class tones, are a big piece of what you're talking about w/"genuine" appreciation" and the like.

just quoting so it doesn't get totally breezed past
 
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