True Detective

Started watching this, up to episode 4 so far. Loving it as entertainment - the leads' chemistry is amazing, and "Let's make the car a place of silent reflection from now on, okay?" my favourite phrase of the year so far..

The major plus point for me is that I buy into the main characters, and so the show isn't simply a 'what happened next?' addictive cliffhanger, as many shows often are (and Breaking Bad, imo, turned into that in season 5 when it no longer was possible to believe the characters. Btw Rich, keep watching beyond season one, it really does pick up in seasons 2-4)

Politically though, it's pretty regressive -the racialised nature of the violence in episode 4 was totally unnecessary, and it's an overwhelmingly male show, with women mostly reduced to victims of one kind or another.

The KRS /strip club combo seemed a bit of a clanger, was thinking that too, not that I have been to many Louisiana strip clubs.

owengriffiths said:

And as this is likely to become the generic TV thread (lets face it it'll be one-two years before non torrent using non sky sub paying civvies like me get a look in with True Detective)

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you don't need to torrent, there's a huge number of reliable streams

baboon2004 said:

The KRS /strip club combo seemed a bit of a clanger, was thinking that too, not that I have been to many Louisiana strip clubs.

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God, I blocked that out!!!

i had to check once more, but yes, it did really happen.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...e-know-up-to-episode-7-after-you-ve-gone.html

i liked this and the angle on how so many cliffhanger/twist-based series make the audience feel cheated -spoilers throughout up until episode 7 though - interesting Michelle Monaghan interview slip-up too that gives clues as to the finale.

Spoiler

^yea I was pretty disappointed to be honest. It definitely reached its peak ep 5. I'm not sure if my view is a bit skewered by my expectations though. I didn't know from the start it was only going to be 8 episodes so I was expecting it to meander alot more, the end felt kind of rushed, the characters felt alot more one dimensional and the pacing just seemed really off to me. I think reading all the intricate theories in reddit probably ruined it a bit aswell tbh because it created much higher expectations of what was to come. I was actually really hoping they were both going to die at the end, just to have a little bit of a curve-ball, ended up being no different from the end of a Beverly Hills Cop movie.

SPOILERS FOT FINAL EPISODE BE HERE!!!

Was disappointed like everyone else, and the feeling of being let down only increases the more I think about the last episode.

I almost wonder if the whole thing was a haneke-esque thumb in the eye for people expecting something out of the ordinary, given how dismally routine the killer, his lair, his death were. And woody surrounded by his forgiving family. And the "is he dead?... NOPE!" switcheroo. And the GREEN EARS! �� I thought the last scene was touchingly performed by mcconaughey but the optimism somewhat unearned, particularly because they caught ONE GUY from an apparently large conspiracy ("I won't avert my eyes again"?).

A wonderfully executed show but the finale made me think that the big revelation was that it really WAS the clichéd gothic cop drama it seemed like initially after all.

Another aspect I'd like to discuss is the creator's comment that he "doesn't care remotely about serial killers". I suppose I'm compromised in this debate by my fervent wish to see Cthulu's cousin emerge from the shadows twirling a tentacular tash, but it strikes me that a lack of concern with serial killers equates to a lack of concern with their victims. Hence the crowned prostitute becomes existential window dressing. I don't suppose there's anything wrong with using a child murdering cult as mis en scene for lonely white male character development necessarily. But it reminds me of breaking bad's lack of real concern with drugs and drug addiction.

Almost as if these issues NEED to be connected to suburban white males in order to merit attention and awe.

Corpsey said:

A wonderfully executed show but the finale made me think that the big revelation was that it really WAS the clichéd gothic cop drama it seemed like initially after all.

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Spot on. The scenes with the killer at the beginning of the last episode were so full of that rote fear-of-inbred-white-trash bullshit, that I felt as if I'd streamed the wrong thing by mistake. Almost couldn't believe the same person made that episode as the others.

and I agree re Breaking Bad's (lack of) social politics. These shows leave a really bad taste, however technically good they are.

This is why The Wire is still head and shoulders above most of these HBO style shows for me. Despite its flaws, including some silly storylines, I think it took a serious approach towards drugs, towards crime, towards politics.

Corpsey said:

You saw it already?

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A journo friend from the US knew about the finale weeks ago and spilled the beans over IM. She warned me to prep for bitter disappointment and she wasn't wrong.

The ending was disappointing yes, but it was never really that good to begin with. It was probably more a case of everybody wanting it to be good. In reality it was just a rather standard country noir/ southern gothic with the usual clichees, and Mcconaughey received great praise for playing not one but two sterotypes at once. The only thing it really had was great photography.

JWoulf said:

The only thing it really had was great photography.

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Don't forget set design/location.

Just back from meeting with the deed poll lady. Call me Reggie. Reggie Ledoux.

Watched 5 episodes so far. Generally enjoying it but rather bracing myself for a disappointing ending after skimming this thread.

Quite apart from the plot, I'm really enjoying the general feel of the thing. Reminds me a bit of Twin Peaks (well, Lynch in general really) with an antiheroic protagonist who's almost an American and much darker version of Sherlock. I agree with the comments about Lovecraft but the 'weird fiction' reference is not Cthulhu but Robert Chambers' The King In Yellow (although HPL incorporated this into his own mythos, of course). And Cohle's great line about how "Death created Time for what it kills to grow in" is straight out of Burroughs, isn't it? Actually the conjunction of what you might call 'low' horror (serial killers, violent drug gangs, scary rednecks etc.) with 'high' horror (the cosmicism/nihilism, Cohle's psychedelic flights of fancy) reminds me of nothing so much as Bolano's 2666.

Regarding the show's 'politics' - is it really 'misogynistic' because it deals with a serial killer murdering women? I mean it may be a cop-show cliché but it's not as if it's something that never happens in real life. And as far as I can see the female characters are generally portrayed rather sympathetically, whereas of the two male leads one is a horribly damaged, misanthropic borderline sociopath and the other is a selfish, impulsive man-baby who can't keep his dick in his pants and throws his toys out of the pram when he's forced to deal with the consequences of his behaviour.

And griping about the exact choice of hip-hop to soundtrack a particular scene...I dunno, whoever said that may have a point but it just strikes me as, well, such a Dissensian thing to criticize a TV show for. OK, so plenty of people here know and care a lot more about rap music than I do, which is not saying a great deal, but is it that big a problem that it impairs your enjoyment of the show? I know it's not directly analogous but I can enjoy sci-fi without constantly going "...that wouldn't happen...that's not realistic...where'd they get that idea?".

And I kind of hate to say it but come on, hands up anyone here with actual first-hand experience of what black gangbangers were listening to in Louisiana crack dens in the mid-90s...

Mr. Tea said:

And Cohle's great line about how "Death created Time for what it kills to grow in" is straight out of Burroughs, isn't it? Actually the conjunction of what you might call 'low' horror (serial killers, violent drug gangs, scary rednecks etc.) with 'high' horror (the cosmicism/nihilism, Cohle's psychedelic flights of fancy) reminds me of nothing so much as Bolano's 2666.

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Ligotti, Ligotti, Ligotti, Ligotti, Ligotti, Ligotti.

Ligotti.

Also, you're all being very hard on it in this thread. The ending was a minor let down, but not THAT bad.

The fact that it was so engaging DESPITE the tread-worn themes and subject matter is what's so remarkable about it, also the sense of sprawling, endless hopelessness in its depiction of people and place.

And just to bang my latest drum again - readers of Laird Barron may find some interesting resonances in the final confrontation.

droid said:

the sense of sprawling, endless hopelessness in its depiction of people and place.

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I would have liked it if this closeup (after Gilbough and Papania ask for directions) then panning out to the wider landscape had been the final shot of the series and he'd never been caught