luka

Well-known member
Remember what Mark borrows from Jameson that our quandary our civilizational neurosis is a failure of the imagination
 

luka

Well-known member
What are the capabilites of the sugar glider. Nomos managed to work this out and its fundamental. Music is a training programme for what he termed the sonic body.

Imagination creates the realities we come to inhabit.
 

blissblogger

Well-known member
faceless techno bollocks

Anyway, re: electro - this Mad Mike interview is good - https://www.thewire.co.uk/in-writing/interviews/mike-banks-interview

I don't go in front of the music. I believe that if you put your ego in front of the music, and place it in front of the speaker, then the people trying to listen to the music can't hear your music, they just listen to your ego. So I really ask the people who do have pictures of me to be honourable and just leave me out of it, man. There's been time when I've made music like 'Hi- Tech Jazz'. Man, when I made that track I can't remember anything, it was a two week blur. The spirit was moving through me, and when I got through, it was 'Hi-Tech Jazz'. Many, many times as a musician, if you're really in tune, like you're playing in church... As a keyboard player, or guitar player, or bass player, I'm decent at what I do, but there's times when people in church get into it, and the feeling comes, and the spirit comes, and you can play way beyond your ability. In fact, you know the bass pedal on the organ? I always have trouble with it. I have to look down and play the bass, it's difficult but when the spirit comes you don't have to look down, your foot be moving, so at the point you realise that I ain't really playing this organ. So it's the same with a track. If the spirit come when you make a track, the question then becomes 'Is it really you making the track?' So again, it's difficult to take credit for some of this stuff, some of the time.

As a human being, you've got faults, but your work, or your art, or whatever passes through you, your contribution, it lasts way longer than the human does. To me, Beethoven and Bach, their music has outlived their physical being, so they would have been a fool to put their self in front of it, because as a man you're frail, but your work can stay in humanity forever, like the Egyptians. That shit is so deep, it's still there, people are still putting their hands on work that was done who knows how long ago. There's a number of reasons for the masks, but that was one of the bigger reasons.

i was just reading up on the Mekons for something work-related and had forgotten that in their very first interview, for NME, they wanted there to be no photographs and i think also no individual names mentioned, no attribution of quotes to specific people - it was all to be presented to the public collectively and facelessly.

but the photographer from NME sneaked a pic anyway and then before you know it they are signed to Virgin and there's actually a publicity photo of them sent out with the album.

But their initial stance was very idealistic and UR-like.

although not with the mystique and remoteness of UR - the opposite in fact, their ideal was to be absolutely approachable by their audience, absolutely demystified in every aspect

they even had some kind of band charter or internal manifesto of principles, which were things like no distance between band and audience, we are not special people in any way etc

there is a line you can trace running through rock/etc history that is all around this thing of facelessness versus face-fullness (embracing stardom, image, glamour, presentation)

it plays out in everything from stage presentation (how bright the lights, wearing stage clothes versus everyday clothes) to record packaging (prog groups and post-psychedelic Underground groups tended to not appear on their covers, but have abstract/surreal images or landscapes or whatever, whereas the more pop / showbiz things get, the more emphasis there is on having a face on the front cover

another aspect to this collectivity - the pop industry doesn't like bands and is always scheming to break up bands and spawn off solo stars, because that's more marketable
 

luka

Well-known member
I dunno that discussing specific things limits it, you can just change the subject later. It's not as though once you discuss one aspect of it the others die and you can never zoom back out and look at it as a whole.

I don't think that either. It's not what I meant.
 

luka

Well-known member
I wasn't referring to what we could should shouldn't discuss here. That's always up for grabs. I was reacting against the suggestion that antihumanist impulses should be made to justify themselves before being put into action with reference to how they might or might not assist the struggle against capitalism.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
I'm not convinced that anti-humanism is resistance or even revolutionary. I'd argue that one of the aims of capitalism is to remove the human and replace it with the machine, both figuratively and literally.


Can't agree with this. in fact i would say it is the other way around and foucault would probably agree with me. capitalism creates the modulated human divorced from traditional kinship ties in its own acclamitised image and subject to its own logic.

This is both progressive and conservative simultaneously. progressive in that feudalism for the large majority of people is and will not desirable, conservative in that your resistance is a modulation. I tend to agree with Baboon here.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
That wouldn't be any more resistant to capitalism than the individual though, would it? The capitalists own and manufacture the machines.

Individual capitalists or even small groups of capitalists don't though. they only own the means of production in a formal disposition of the product, they don't have direct ownership of it only as long as they can stay within the constant restructurings and fluctuations of the class. this is different to tributary and feudal modes of production where everything was quite literally the property of the aristocracy for centuries. this is also why our resistance has to be global, total collective and anonymous. there's nothing to create, only constitutions to smash.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
class is an experimental fact, not a statistically defined quantity imo. also why i find some sociology a bit redundant. just do bloody history ffs.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Wyndham Lewis sneered at the futurists saying they were not modern at all but merely romantics romanticising machines. Backwards Italians. Not from proper capitalist industrial economies

Well, this was the weakness of the USSR. it thought statification would mean the machines would have a working class content. except that wasn't the case. military machines will have to be slowly phased out for sure.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
i was just reading up on the Mekons for something work-related and had forgotten that in their very first interview, for NME, they wanted there to be no photographs and i think also no individual names mentioned, no attribution of quotes to specific people - it was all to be presented to the public collectively and facelessly.

but the photographer from NME sneaked a pic anyway and then before you know it they are signed to Virgin and there's actually a publicity photo of them sent out with the album.

But their initial stance was very idealistic and UR-like.

although not with the mystique and remoteness of UR - the opposite in fact, their ideal was to be absolutely approachable by their audience, absolutely demystified in every aspect

they even had some kind of band charter or internal manifesto of principles, which were things like no distance between band and audience, we are not special people in any way etc

there is a line you can trace running through rock/etc history that is all around this thing of facelessness versus face-fullness (embracing stardom, image, glamour, presentation)

it plays out in everything from stage presentation (how bright the lights, wearing stage clothes versus everyday clothes) to record packaging (prog groups and post-psychedelic Underground groups tended to not appear on their covers, but have abstract/surreal images or landscapes or whatever, whereas the more pop / showbiz things get, the more emphasis there is on having a face on the front cover

another aspect to this collectivity - the pop industry doesn't like bands and is always scheming to break up bands and spawn off solo stars, because that's more marketable


the best is unknown artist hardcore tunes. love that. it's not even here's an alias, we're being anonymous, it's literally anonymous. could be the most famous producer or a bedroom nobody. you'll never know.

 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Wyndham Lewis sneered at the futurists saying they were not modern at all but merely romantics romanticising machines. Backwards Italians. Not from proper capitalist industrial economies


typical uncultivated bacon eating english moron thinking he's cleverer than he actually is. the point is not the advancement of the machine, the problem is how the commodity acts as a fetish and conceals the abstract determinations of the world economy and thus superficially separates value from use value. so money or corporations are equated with money which crudely represents value as an intangible force that can be controlled by nationalisations, authoritarianism or in the worst case genocides, rather than a determination corresponding to a specific form of social organisation with specific social relationships that dominates us *in a specific time period.* I'm wary of marxists who try to make it a history of everything. that certainly is not what marx said, he didn't believe capitalism existed since the advent of coinage or the neolithic age, other forms of exploitation existed in those days, although capital existed in the greek and roman period, just not as a system or as capitalism.

I think you're smarter than this public scchool chap, you and j.h prynn are better, never mind this decrepit arsewipe.
 
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blissblogger

Well-known member
the best is unknown artist hardcore tunes. love that. it's not even here's an alias, we're being anonymous, it's literally anonymous. could be the most famous producer or a bedroom nobody. you'll never know.


that's a good tune that - ghostly

someone like selectabwoy should do a whole mix of unknowns
 

luka

Well-known member
I agree I'm very clever, perhaps because I've never eaten bacon and never will. however here Lewis was making a point of limited and specific scope and I think it's accurate.
It has no bearing on Marxism
 

luka

Well-known member
I feel rotten im going to bed. Take this thread in a new and fertile and surprising direction pls you lot. Expand the scope.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
some og electro bods were involved in hardcore and gabba as well. his one on dexorcist's hybrid label. electro gabba acid i guess.

 

luka

Well-known member
"There’s always the impossible to shake off feeling that certain rare records correlate to certain rare modes of consciousness. That music is a map of consciousness in its various states. And exploring the edges of music is somehow skin to exploring the edges of consciousness. To stop exploring music is to stop exploring existence. A way of closing the net curtains. Books too, to find the book which forces you to expand the brain box, like a snake dislocating it jaw to swallow a large animal. Anything else is closing the net curtains, or pressing the same pleasure button for the same predictable stimulus. Compulsive behaviour in other words, dull routine, insidious habit.
Habit change is a magical operation. It gives you more control over your own behaviour. Less compulsion, more choice."
 
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