The Dissensus Framework

I thought I was doing rather well

Pantheism - the insight that there is nothing immaterial at any one moment whatever is is material. Forgotten in a time when text messages fly invisibly through space. Alienation from the material world effected through technology. That was what I was getting at with the Wordsworth stuff. Not that there is no phenomena of dematerialisation, but that dematerialisation might come through recognition of the increasingly hidden materiality of the world.

No good? Sorry if I've let you down Luka I am a wage slave and lazy to boot.

Corpsey said:

I thought I was doing rather well

Pantheism - the insight that there is nothing immaterial at any one moment whatever is is material. Forgotten in a time when text messages fly invisibly through space. Alienation from the material world effected through technology. That was what I was getting at with the Wordsworth stuff. Not that there is no phenomena of dematerialisation, but that dematerialisation might come through recognition of the increasingly hidden materiality of the world.

No good? Sorry if I've let you down Luka I am a wage slave and lazy to boot.

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You were doing well im just very tired

Actually I forgot the imagination, a big oversight lol On some level the imagination is material too ofc (synapses firing etc.) But in some sense dissensus exists in my head as well as on some servers somewhere and in your heads too.

The young lads had me up late doing wank jokes

You did that to yourself.

"I assert, for myself, that I do not behold the outward creation, and that to me it is hindrance and not action. "What !" it will be questioned, "when the sun rises, do you not see a round disc of fire somewhat like a guinea !" Oh ! no, no ! I see an innumerable company of the heavenly host crying "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty !" I question not my corporeal eye any more than I would question a window concerning a sight. I look through it, and not with it."

Its good to have you back corpse. This 'spunk-saving' project is working wonders.

Not sure if this is too quotidian for your interests but to consider how alienated we are... Imaginatively, if that's the word... From how, say email works, as opposed to writing a letter and sending it. I suppose a small cabal of nerds really understands what's happening, but most of us couldn't explain it, which is okay since we don't give it a second thought.

But there's definitely a sense I have that the online world exists in the air between us, almost like an invisible dimension that you can poke your face into through a smartphone.

The hidden world of all information, if you're cut off from it you know it's "there". Almost holy, but also full of demonic force.

I think that's why kids (if I can risk talking about kids after whats took olace in the Eilish thread) get so fascinated by the typewriter. You can see all the moving parts. the mechanism. You operate it by hand

Corpsey said:

"I assert, for myself, that I do not behold the outward creation, and that to me it is hindrance and not action. "What !" it will be questioned, "when the sun rises, do you not see a round disc of fire somewhat like a guinea !" Oh ! no, no ! I see an innumerable company of the heavenly host crying "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty !" I question not my corporeal eye any more than I would question a window concerning a sight. I look through it, and not with it."

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What interests me here is that while the scientist would say the sun is the sun, it isn't a heavenly host of angels, Blake is deluded, or just imagining things - whatever the case, Blake's conception of the sun exists somewhere in his mind, and in ours, via language.

sadmanbarty said:

i text luke while he was at work to say so.

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He did. He was in a high state of excitement.

I have to go to bed, but it occurs to me that this invisible world of data exists as the invisible world of atoms does for us, a materiality (THE materiality) that seems immaterial, because beyond our senses.

Not sure that leads anywhere but it's interesting to me - it's like we're surrounded by magical forces we can't perceive but we know are "there", or everywhere

Sounds promising to me corpsey.

Corpsey said:

At the risk of sounding like a dullard.

What is the aim of this framework?

I understand you've established these polarities - but what do you do with them?

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Well this is language isn't it. What do you do with language? That depends on your view of what language is capable of. You either think it can communicate your experience, or you think it is limited to referring to itself, or you think the meaning intended by the speaker is radically altered by the receiver due to non compatible hardware and software. Or you swing between these different states depending on how well understood you happen to feel at any given moment, on your ability to communicate your own experience.

As I wrote here https://deepmeditationtherapy.blogspot.com/2018/10/the-writing-i-am-interested-in.html and here https://deepmeditationtherapy.blogspot.com/2019/03/i-dont-want-to-tell-you-how-to-write.html I have been approaching it in terms of a mapping and on the assumption that
"States are physiological conditions. A manner of breathing. A heart rate. A specific contracting of muscles, of distributed tensions. A biochemical reality of adrenaline and dopamine and serotonin."
And there for have an objective reality and are consequently communicable.

Obviously if this was straight forward and unambiguous there would neve be any misunderstanding between people and lies would be impossible. So there are a number of possibly intractable complications. The difficulty I have in communicating my ideas is testament to that. What seems clear and straightforward to me appears garbled and nonsensical to everyone else.

One of the very interesting questions here is what happens when body music becomes machine music (the machine is an extension of the body) and consequently, computer music (the computer is an extension of the mind)

Corpsey said:

As I've said before, I read a bit of Nietzsche a month or so ago and was interested in analysing music by his Apollo/Dionysus theory. Relevant?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonian_and_Dionysian

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Yes, remember Pounds dictum. "A god is an eternal state of mind." And DH Lawrence "like a pool into which we plunge, or do not plunge"

The Dionysian mind is a completely distinct biochemical state from the Apollonian and as such reality under the two conditions is radically divergent. ("Reality is a constant scanning pattern." WSB) The experience is different and consequently the thoughts, feelings, beliefs etc each engenders are unique to themselves. This is exactly what we are doing here but because I am megalomaniacal and because Barty is megalomaniacal we are doing it from scratch and inventing our own language and frame of reference.

This is not difficult or esoteric. It is a system of metaphor implicit in our everyday use of language. This is what I was drawing attention to by isolating the descriptors used in Simon's original Feminine Pressure essay. It's the underlying super language of synesthesia we all use naturally. It's how we talk to one another.

Corpsey said:

Are we attempting to get beyond value judgements? Or is this a way to determine value?

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It's absolutely intended to get beyond the tyranny of taste yes. Yummy/Yucky. It's a way to start to talk about what music actually does. What it encodes and in turn what it does to us. How we are changed, molecularly reassembled and transformed by it.

Does that clarify things?