thirdform

pass the sick bucket
2step literally came out of jungle boys like el-b dicking about with metalheadz and not getting anywhere.

that's also why it rhythmically has more in common with post-97 dnb, not 94 jungle.

jungle's audience left jungle not because of techstep's rhythmic rigidity (learn to count!) but because it became exclusive. this is the blessing and curse of building your scene around initiates.

by exclusive i don't mean smart clothes, champagne and cocaine, I mean an exclusivity of sound.
 
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luka

Well-known member
House never goes away and it's never been a white thing. This is obviously true. Sometimes it comes to the forefront. Garage in 96,97. U.K. Funky and then deep tech and rinse FM pop era. But it's always there bubbling away, mostly undisturbed, part of the ecology, always has been since the 80s. Some people like that bumpy vibe and want to live in it
 

luka

Well-known member
So when house music does return, as it keeps doing, post grime, it's never with a white face on it.
 

luka

Well-known member
It's that Karl tuff enuff brown and Matt jam lament energy. Don't get too excited, just vibe energy, don't harsh my buzz, why are you so aggressive, behave yourself little man energy that people retreat too when they get tired of people acting out.
 

luka

Well-known member
Which takes us back to a point third made a while ago. Where's the grown ups music then?
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
well, it's easier to do trad funk with house. yes there will be bleepy weirdo pulses but if you take jungle for example you can get so funky that it becomes like a 70s jazz funk thing where its who is the best dancer to the break edits (don't laugh.)

2step was merger of gay new york house with rnb. when rnb started making more of a pivot to rock style vocals (autotune the full christening of this) garage could only become a revival thing.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Very good thread, well done Barty and Luka. Rae and Ghost. Dre and Snoop. Richard and Judy.

I'm back off on holiday again today so I'll have to contribute where I can.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
It's that Karl tuff enuff brown and Matt jam lament energy. Don't get too excited, just vibe energy, don't harsh my buzz, why are you so aggressive, behave yourself little man energy that people retreat too when they get tired of people acting out.

exactly, vibes music. Reynolds gets it right that the best jungle was closer to sound collage than proper music bollocks, but he can't really square that with dance music in all genres having the vibey impulse - which the best individual jungle tracks were not, but you still needed the vibes in a mix, otherwise it would turn to post-98 dnb.

the only genre that doesn't have a vibes pendulum dragging it back to rhodes or funk affectations is trance. and obviously gabba, but even with gabba you can still have hip hop sampling which can introduce a funk sample, albeit highly warped an mutated by then. a lot of deeper acid for example is vibey

ironically, one of the (few) vibiest hardcore tracks is .. just 4 u london.
 
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luka

Well-known member
Yeah vibes. I mean, I think this is part of where your continuum discourse just becomes poptimist critique is coming from. Like I do sort of feel the validity of that at some level because obviously I have a kind of pull towards the pop hit, the intensity and vividness of the stand alone tune which is antithetical in a way to the whole point of dance music. It's a good point, worth teasing out a bit more that one
 

luka

Well-known member
The one person we all know that could really balance this list, that is perfectly positioned to balance this account and make it complete, is Trilliam funnily enough, partly cos he's that bit older, but only by a few years, and partly cos he's a house guy who loves the early road rap stuff and he's a scholar.
 

luka

Well-known member
It's like where there's an ancient power talisman that's been split in two and the two halves end up in the possession of two different people and they have to join up and connect them to release the full energy
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Yeah vibes. I mean, I think this is part of where your continuum discourse just becomes poptimist critique is coming from. Like I do sort of feel the validity of that at some level because obviously I have a kind of pull towards the pop hit, the intensity and vividness of the stand alone tune which is antithetical in a way to the whole point of dance music. It's a good point, worth teasing out a bit more that one

grime quite interesting here because it's an anti-vibe vibe.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
the vibes underground needs the pop to constantly recontextualise itself for new demographics to be drawn into its orbit as it did with us for garage-jungle grime.

given that pop has pretty much become a capitalist death factory churning out the exact same emo autotune crap the majors understood how this thing works than people indebted to da truest undergr0und telling us that all it needs is dedication, which is a load of bollocks.
 

luka

Well-known member
One of the things I found striking and odd about channel u when it first came out, and I watched a lot of it, is that it wasn't a grime channel at all. The big grime players ignored it largely, dti, yeah, but mostly that was where I first started seeing the rap thing. Maybe it helped foster that culture, maybe not I don't know, but that was the first time I saw the North Star lot and obviously this masterpiece

 

luka

Well-known member
This is street gang culture really starting to impose itself on London music for the first time. Pdc all that lot.

 

luka

Well-known member
Wow! New levels of spite and cattiness from Craner! Most vicious thing I've ever seen on disesensus! No applause for talent show performance. Meow!
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Loved the pool, actually. I was always useless at swimming at school but by the end of the four days I was diving in and sleeking through the water like a porpoise. Didn't do any bladdered nighttime swimming though, sadly.
 
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