Into the Sewers

version

version

Well-known member
Is there a particular reason for the underworld being 'under' in the cultures where that's a feature? kumar pointed out the burial thing, but did burial become established before or after it was decided the land of the dead lay beneath? Why is Heaven above and Hell below?
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
version said:
There are whole communities living in the sewers, tunnels and spaces under places
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there is a complex of "lowers" beneath a chunk of downtown Chicago - i.e. Lower Wacker where the chase scene in The Dark Knight was filmed

there are multiple levels - lower and lower lower - replete with a bewildering array of staircases, ramps, shortcuts and dead ends

there are always, unsurprisingly, quite a few homeless people living there, despite the city's sporadic efforts to expel them

it's not fully enclosed so it's not quite the same as a sewer or tunnel, but it is quite subterranean, the eternal glare of sodium lighting on concrete, air always clammy (nice in summer tbf)

I'm through there all the time for work and the more isolated parts always have a kind of half-life gloom
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
padraig (u.s.) said:
as someone above said, above is endless, transcendent

below is finite and material

material flesh returns to material, transcendent spirit flies off into the ether
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But surely it's the earth - "middle earth", if you like - that's temporal and mortal, and both Heaven and Hell that are eternal?
 
version

version

Well-known member
In something like Greek mythology, is there an equivalent to Heaven and Hell or does everyone just end up in Hades once they die?
 
D

DannyL

Wild Horses
There's some crossover between this and the graffiti thread. Graf having some crossover with urban exploration. This photo captures it well:
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Mr. Tea said:
But surely it's the earth - "middle earth", if you like - that's temporal and mortal, and both Heaven and Hell that are eternal?
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right - the earth is finite. Hell which lies beneath it is eternal.

both are below, and below is darkness

the finite darkness of the earth and beyond it the infinite darkness of the abyss
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
the lower half of the body is base, vulgar, material - sex, excretion

the upper half is transcendent - thought, spirit, consciousness
 
D

DannyL

Wild Horses
Also you might contrast images of the Earth as fecund, life-giving, erotic even - to all this doom and gloom. Peter Redgove, the poet, had fetish for staining white shirts by rolling around on the earth. Some kinds earth as erotism-and-degradation going on. Darkness staining masculine whiteness.
 
version

version

Well-known member
DannyL said:
There's some crossover between this and the graffiti thread. Graf having some crossover with urban exploration. This photo captures it well:
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I like the way stuff like graffiti re purposes these places, reminds me of skating. It completely changes how you view the environment, I still see stairs, ledges, banks and so on in terms how you'd skate it. You often get people skating sewage pipes, reservoirs and stuff too.

 
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padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
DannyL said:
the Earth as fecund, life-giving, erotic even - to all this doom and gloom
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it's very Gnostic, the material (flesh) as evil and the spiritual as good

Gnosticism also has the concept of knowing as the means to salvation

that one must descend - into the material world - to gain true knowledge in order to ascend - to the spiritual world
 
version

version

Well-known member
Is there a common belief in cultures where they practice sky burials? That seems to be something to do with what's been said re: the above being endless in contrast to being trapped in the below.
 
D

DannyL

Wild Horses
Occultist Kenneth Grant, a Crowley protege developed the idea of the Tunnels of Set, a kind of squrming larval underworld in contrast to the linear spaces mapped out by the Tree of Life. His stuff is seen as a bit passe now, due mostly to his historical research being a bit fantastical but it's an interesting constellation of ideas. I have a tarot deck somewhere based on this map of his (which I never use). He was the guy who first talked about Lovecraft as an occult writer. She gives an account in her book about the deck of a caving expedition they did as part of this work.

zamradiel-the-lovers-linda-falorio.jpg
 

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version

version

Well-known member
The monster(s) lurking in the sewers appears in film a lot, presumably tracing back to the minotaur in the labyrinth.
 
version

version

Well-known member
Things being flushed away and mutating or growing to enormous size, chemicals getting into the water.
 
version

version

Well-known member
DannyL said:
Occultist Kenneth Grant, a Crowley protege developed the idea of the Tunnels of Set, a kind of squrming larval underworld in contrast to the linear spaces mapped out by the Tree of Life. His stuff is seen as a bit passe now, due mostly to his historical research being a bit fantastical but it's an interesting constellation of ideas. I have a tarot deck somewhere based on this map of his (which I never use). He was the guy who first talked about Lovecraft as an occult writer. She gives an account in her book about the deck of a caving expedition they did as part of this work.
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This is intriguing. I've got this open now: https://starandsystem.blogspot.com/2015/07/how-to-enter-tunnels-of-set_12.html
 
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