the socialism of fools

luka

luka

Well-known member
The existence of an Israel lobby comprised of various groups not all directly funded or funded at all by Israel has to be acknowledged. That one of the things they exist for is to stop people like Corbyn wielding influence also has to be acknowledged. That this is of use to cynical others who want to stop Corbyn for their own reasons has to be acknowledged.

None of this means that there is no anti semetic sentiment in the labour party. It doesn't even mean Corbyn is immune to anti semetic sentiment.

But it is interesting how this issue has dominated election coverage. Of course it serves some powerful interests whether or not it is grounded in fact in a way that the windrush stuff for instance doesn't.

The fact stuff just gets in the way. It gets very ugly and vicious when we do the fact stuff. I hate it.
 
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DannyL

Wild Horses
luka said:
The existence of an Israel lobby comprised of various groups not all directly funded or funded at all by Israel has to be acknowledged. That one of the things they exist for is to stop people like Corbyn wielding influence also has to be acknowledged. That this is of use to cynical others who want to stop Corbyn for their own reasons has to be acknowledged.

None of this means that there is no anti semetic sentiment in the labour party. It doesn't even mean Corbyn is immune to anti semetic sentiment.

But it is interesting how this issue has dominated election coverage. Of course it serves some powerful interests whether or not it is grounded in fact in a way that the windrush stuff for instance doesn't.

The fact stuff just gets in the way. It gets very ugly and vicious when we do the fact stuff. I hate it.
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I think we've done pretty well so far, given the contentious nature of the topic. Most social media "discussions"on AS go nuclear in about 3 posts.

i find it intellectually challenging and interesting to try and think some of this through, why it happens, what's going on. It's not all just a smear, neither is it free from "weaponisation" either. Maybe bad timing though with the election looming, and a more overtly racist party looking like they're going to seize the crown.
 
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Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
luka said:
The fact stuff just gets in the way. It gets very ugly and vicious when we do the fact stuff. I hate it.
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This sounds like a recipe for 100 pages of people saying "You're wrong and you're a grotesquely ugly freak."

In the absence of facts, what are you left with? Feelings and prejudices, which everyone has, equally strongly. Stalemate. Deadlock.
 
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DannyL

Wild Horses
But people dismiss facts, don't acknowledge them, misread them etc etc. Especially in the social media sphere. I don't think they are a final arbiter.

I doubt any set of "facts" would convince me to shift things I'm really certain about. But that's 'cos I'm right. (?)
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
Mr. Tea said:
This sounds like a recipe for 100 pages of people saying "You're wrong and you're a grotesquely ugly freak."

In the absence of facts, what are you left with? Feelings and prejudices, which everyone has, equally strongly. Stalemate. Deadlock.
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That's what we have with facts. This conversation has been civil because we've carefully avoided facts
 
version

version

Well-known member
Mr. Tea said:
you don't routinely hear about people of Chinese ethnicity in Western countries, whose families may have been settled there for multiple generations, being suspected of being agents of the Chinese state.
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Sadly, I think that's probably on the way.
 
sufi

sufi

lala
"a candid, emotionally honest analysis of the psychology of the left with regards to anti-semitism" would be a good title except it's too long
 
version

version

Well-known member
luka said:
Australia has this problem if you read their papers you'll see. Very sad.
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Maybe there are some cases where it's true, but there are inevitably going to be cases where it isn't and people don't tend to operate with that level of nuance. They just tar entire groups of people with the same brush.

I think we're going to see an increase in Sinophobia in the future, you can see it happening on Reddit already. The US and Chinese governments are pitting the people against one another and there are an increasing number of 'Fuck China' type posts in even the movie subreddits due to Beijing's influence in Hollywood.
 
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