version

Well-known member
I haven't read either of them so have no clue what they're actually like, but Neal Stephenson and David Mitchell seem like some naff YA version of Pynchon.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I haven't read either of them so have no clue what they're actually like, but Neal Stephenson and David Mitchell seem like some naff YA version of Pynchon.

luka told me he hated Cryptonomicon because it's full of references to maths, science and technology, which he regards as a kind of black magic.

"the white man's bad juju", I think was the phrase he used.
 

version

Well-known member
This is apparently the bloke interviewing Alan Moore's book, sounds like he paints with a pretty broad brush (psychedelics, democracy, agriculture etc have been around a lot longer than the blurb seems to suggest) but might be worth a look.

Stranger Than We Can Imagine: Making Sense of the Twentieth Century

In Stranger Than We Can Imagine, John Higgs argues that before 1900, history seemed to make sense. We can understand innovations like electricity, agriculture and democracy. The twentieth century, in contrast, gave us relativity, cubism, quantum mechanics, the id, existentialism, Stalin, psychedelics, chaos mathematics, climate change and postmodernism.

In order to understand such a disorienting barrage of unfamiliar and knotty ideas, Higgs shows us, we need to shift the framework of our interpretation and view these concepts within the context of a new kind of historical narrative. Instead of looking at it as another step forward in a stable path, we need to look at the twentieth century as a chaotic seismic shift, upending all linear narratives.

Higgs invites us along as he journeys across a century “about which we know too much” in order to grant us a new perspective on it. He brings a refreshingly non-academic, eclectic and infectiously energetic approach to his subjects as well as a unique ability to explain how complex ideas connect and intersect—whether he’s discussing Einstein’s theories of relativity, the Beat poets' interest in Eastern thought or the bright spots and pitfalls of the American Dream.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I don't think he's saying agriculture and democracy were invented recently - where did you get that bit?

You can't really argue that the pace of technological and social change isn't a lot greater than it used to be (and I'm sure you aren't), but yeah, whether there was some great qualitative change around 1900 seems questionable. And I'm wary of casual use of the term '(non-)linear', which has a specific meaning in mathematics and systems theory.
 

luka

Well-known member
Mr Tea doesn't really know maths he just relies on us knowing even less. Don't let him bluff you, he can barely count to ten.
 
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luka

Well-known member
Remember Craner telling us that anecdote about reading 'a thousand years of non linear history' on a train in Wales and having some proletarian brute bully him about it, making him an object of ridicule for the whole carriage?

Hey four eyes, what you reading?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Mr Tea doesn't really know maths he just relies on us knowing even less. Don't let him bluff you, he can barely count to ten.

lol, ya got me.

Yeah I was thinking of craner's train bullying anecdote too. Very funny.
 

version

Well-known member
Why did things seemingly accelerate to the extent they did during the 20th century? Is it due to the relative peace in the West post-WW2, perhaps something else?
 

luka

Well-known member
A lot of it is to do with massive increases in wealth, in energy and in population size. It's also to do with urbanisation so fewer people are tied to the land.
 
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