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Thread: Where to now?

  1. #31
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    And back to the thread question. There is nowhere to go now, it's done. Tories in power for minimum five years, more if they can change the boundaries and make it harder for people to vote, Brexit is guaranteed, Scotland is likely to demand to leave... I don't think there is any mechanism to even begin to resist all this in any worthwhile way.

  2. #32

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    Scotland would be the same anyway. Corbyn baked into his offer a Second Referendum. So, it would have just happened faster. The idea that the SNP would have dropped their demand for independence had an EU-sceptic Labour government formed is crazy. The entire SNP strategy is to win a referendum to be an independent country, the rest is tactics.

  3. #33
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    i actually had a chat with my mp today, he successfully defended his seat
    i was walking past the constituency office and peeked thru the window and could see him sitting apparently alone with the lights off, i barged in, he seemed fairly shell shocked
    glad he got through

  4. #34
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    the way forward has nothing to do with parliament, craner, there are social forces at work that undercut all this imho

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  6. #35
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    this performance is like a rearguard action by the ancien regime in the face of overwhelming social disdain and revulsion

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  8. #36
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    Well, I don't really see Scotland leaving as a bad thing, certainly I don't blame them. I just mean it looks as though it will happen... or maybe we will end up with some situation like in Catalonia where they hold a referendum deemed illegitimate by the UK government and there is major civil unrest.

  9. #37

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    Well that's OK, but those who go the extra-parliamentary route should at least be honest about it when they are getting worked up about the prorogation for example. That's why I posted that New Socialist Class War Corbynism essay the other day, because it revealed the reality of their agenda.

    I don't blame them for it, but it only demonstrated the fact the they had no lineage in the Labour Party, their co-option of 1945, Clem and even Bevan was false and ahistorical, and they could have at least said so.

  10. #38

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    And with Scotland, yes same. Three elections on the go, if they want to leave, maybe it is time.

    I despise nationalism, not sure it will work out how they think. Like I have always said too, the idea that an independent Scotland would be a left wing dream is hilarious: Scotland has a very conservative rump, nationalist or not. The union was also based on a Scottish enthusiasm for the economic and military benefits of the British Empire.

  11. #39
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    Climate is gonna fuck everything up very soon and these guys wont be able to keep a lid on the social consequences. If there's one grim glimmer of satisfaction its that at least some of these fuckers and the coalition of business and billionaires that support them will end up hanging from lamposts. As for the murderous gerontocracy that consistently votes to burn the future - they'll be the first to go when society disintegrates.

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  13. #40
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    But just because I'm saying that I wouldn't be surprised if Scotland tried to force through independence doesn't mean that I can't criticise poroguation, gerrymandering, lying etc I'm not endorsing any kind of anti-democratic move, it's just a vague prediction that is loosely tied up with my wider prediction that everything is fucked now. Basically the thing I care most about is stopping Brexit and that's done and dusted - even though more votes were cast for anti-Brexit parties apparently, the Tories are already saying this election delivers a clear mandate for Brexit. Now that's why an election is no substitute for a referendum in terms of sorting out that single matter (in the Euro elections the Tories claimed the results meant that people wanted to get on with brexit while Labour and others claimed the opposite). Referenda have the advantage of clarity at least. Anyway, whatever, the Tories are in power, have a large enough majority to do what they want and they are gonna force through Johnson's crappy deal so they claim it's done when really all that will have been done is the damage, the (all but) irrefutable step of leaving. After that they will try and keep the ongoing negotiations out of the news and play them down as much as possible. But our rights WILL be diminished and our economy and our future potential etc.

  14. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by john eden View Post
    I was hoping we could talk about a broader “where to know” than the Labour Party.
    That's the idea of the thread tbh. I just lead with Labour as it seemed the obvious place to start.
    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
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  15. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by IdleRich View Post
    But just because I'm saying that I wouldn't be surprised if Scotland tried to force through independence doesn't mean that I can't criticise poroguation, gerrymandering, lying etc I'm not endorsing any kind of anti-democratic move, it's just a vague prediction that is loosely tied up with my wider prediction that everything is fucked now. Basically the thing I care most about is stopping Brexit and that's done and dusted - even though more votes were cast for anti-Brexit parties apparently, the Tories are already saying this election delivers a clear mandate for Brexit. Now that's why an election is no substitute for a referendum in terms of sorting out that single matter (in the Euro elections the Tories claimed the results meant that people wanted to get on with brexit while Labour and others claimed the opposite). Referenda have the advantage of clarity at least. Anyway, whatever, the Tories are in power, have a large enough majority to do what they want and they are gonna force through Johnson's crappy deal so they claim it's done when really all that will have been done is the damage, the (all but) irrefutable step of leaving. After that they will try and keep the ongoing negotiations out of the news and play them down as much as possible. But our rights WILL be diminished and our economy and our future potential etc.
    Cross posts I think. Prorogation point was to Sufi.

  16. #43
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    Alan Johnson's line about the working class always having disappointed people like Lansman was painful to watch.

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  17. #44
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    Hottest of takes I read on Twitter today, from a Corbynite lambasting a Labour MP saying that people in his constituency were anti-Corbyn, was (and I quote) "It’s the tories you should be blaming".

    Yep, it's the Tories' fault that Labour lost. Because they beat them. The same way that when your football team loses, it's the fault of the winning team.
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  18. #45
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    Yeah, as much as I like Corbyn, wanted the Tories to lose and have a lot of issues with the media, how dirty the Tory campaign was and so on, this feels much more like Labour losing it than the Tories winning it. Nobody really trusts Boris, he didn't have a great campaign, he hid in a fucking fridge at one point and stole a reporter's phone, and yet, he's apparently picked up the biggest Tory majority since Thatcher...
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