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Thread: Radical Centrists.

  1. #16
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    I stumbled across Slate Star Codex recently. Apparently that guy's a rationalist.

  2. #17
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    The problem with centrism is that it is a floating signifier.

    You end up triangulating your opinions and strategies against what “the extremes” are up to. This is very very very bad.

    What I keep having a go at Danny about is that it’s just as coherent - better in fact - to attack Corbyn from the left as from “the centre”. Danny has more in common with the anti-Leninist anarcho-communists I knock about with than Owen Smith and Liz Kendal.

    And Jo Swinson. And Nick Clegg. And Mike Gapes. And that “funny tinge” woman.

    These people don’t believe in anything. And they aren’t even fun to get pissed with like real nihilists.

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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by version View Post
    I stumbled across Slate Star Codex recently. Apparently that guy's a rationalist.
    i used to like that blog years ago. i haven't read the vast majority of it but he has a few good posts.

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/1...lasma-of-rage/

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/1...ry-slow-decay/

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/3...-the-outgroup/
    Quote Originally Posted by aMinadaB View Post
    spare me

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  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyL View Post
    I do think that thinking about electability and compromise are useful for anyone interested in politics, even just as a mode of self-critique. It's vital in the UK with FPTP, big regional voting blocks like Scotland etc.
    It’s good to have a grip on this stuff but it can be very addictive and we’ve lost enough good people to the Labour Party over the last few years, thank you very much.

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by version View Post
    Does anyone here identify as a 'radical centrist'? Tea? Barty?
    Centrism is arguable two things; one an electoral strategy and one a very broad ideology. The former would refer essentially to not being a purity candidate and adjusting to the views/whims/superstitions of the electorate; so I’d imagine Blair for example was less socially conservative than he presented himself to the electorate and likewise Brown was less fiscally conservative than he would have portrayed himself in the late-90’s. Centrism as an ideology on the other hand acknowledges that both markets and governments have their strengths and their failures and as such rejects socialism and libertarianism, instead opting for a mixed economy the balance of which ranges from anywhere between Thatcherism or Cameronism to the “Nordic model”.

    I identity myself as a centrist, though obviously “radical centrist” is a naff and embarrassing (though I might have been the one who introduced the term to Luke). The reason the term “radical centrist” was coined was because of the frustration that the centre has with being equated with the status quo; centrists may well want a huge overhaul of how things are done, they just happen to not see either the market or the government as the sole agents of such an overhaul. So for example policies such as land value taxes, helicopter money, loosening planning constraints, carbon taxes, more regionalism, etc.

    There’s also the resentment about equating being left-wing with being progressive. So for example (if I’m remembering correctly) both the 2017 and 2019 Labour manifestos were more regressive than their Lib Dem counterparts (and as it happens more regressive than New Labour).

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  9. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvuent View Post
    i used to like that blog years ago. i haven't read the vast majority of it but he has a few good posts.

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/1...lasma-of-rage/

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/1...ry-slow-decay/

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/3...-the-outgroup/
    He did one on Moloch that looks intriguing. I might read it and make a thread.

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/3...ons-on-moloch/

    The question everyone has after reading Ginsberg is: what is Moloch?

    My answer is: Moloch is exactly what the history books say he is. He is the god of child sacrifice, the fiery furnace into which you can toss your babies in exchange for victory in war.

    He always and everywhere offers the same deal: throw what you love most into the flames, and I can grant you power.

    As long as the offer’s open, it will be irresistible. So we need to close the offer. Only another god can kill Moloch. We have one on our side, but he needs our help. We should give it to him.

    Ginsberg’s poem famously begins “I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness”. I am luckier than Ginsberg. I got to see the best minds of my generation identify a problem and get to work.

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    yeah that's an important topic
    Quote Originally Posted by aMinadaB View Post
    spare me

  11. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by version View Post
    Ginsberg’s poem famously begins “I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness”. I am luckier than Ginsberg. I got to see the best minds of my generation identify a problem and get to work.
    you can clearly see which of these two writers has better artistic instincts though lol
    Quote Originally Posted by aMinadaB View Post
    spare me

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  13. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    Centrism is arguable two things; one an electoral strategy and one a very broad ideology. The former would refer essentially to not being a purity candidate and adjusting to the views/whims/superstitions of the electorate; so I’d imagine Blair for example was less socially conservative than he presented himself to the electorate and likewise Brown was less fiscally conservative than he would have portrayed himself in the late-90’s. Centrism as an ideology on the other hand acknowledges that both markets and governments have their strengths and their failures and as such rejects socialism and libertarianism, instead opting for a mixed economy the balance of which ranges from anywhere between Thatcherism or Cameronism to the “Nordic model”.

    I identity myself as a centrist, though obviously “radical centrist” is a naff and embarrassing (though I might have been the one who introduced the term to Luke). The reason the term “radical centrist” was coined was because of the frustration that the centre has with being equated with the status quo; centrists may well want a huge overhaul of how things are done, they just happen to not see either the market or the government as the sole agents of such an overhaul. So for example policies such as land value taxes, helicopter money, loosening planning constraints, carbon taxes, more regionalism, etc.

    There’s also the resentment about equating being left-wing with being progressive. So for example (if I’m remembering correctly) both the 2017 and 2019 Labour manifestos were more regressive than their Lib Dem counterparts (and as it happens more regressive than New Labour).
    Tbh I was just thinking of the word 'twaddle'

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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    Tbh I was just thinking of the word 'twaddle'
    twaddle is crossing a line. that's enoch powell territory.

  15. #26
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    twaddle is a word you use when minorities start complaining about their rights. a bit like when all those women mp's were getting threats and boris said it was humbug.

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  17. #27
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    It's the spluttering. You know "bloody hell those bloody bastard idiots"

  18. #28
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    It's very white middle aged middle class middle England very red in the face very angry bloody bastards

  19. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    twaddle is crossing a line. that's enoch powell territory.
    You're the one known as "The Enoch Powell of the iPhone Age" though.

  20. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    It's the spluttering. You know "bloody hell those bloody bastard idiots"
    to be honest nobody can talk about politics and maintain their dignity. its an act of self-humiliation.

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