luka

Well-known member
I can't remember which of you first used this phrase. I can't remember what I thought at the time either but the phrase did stick with me. I just saw this on my Twitter. I dont know who this Kotsko is I don't care either I'm just using it as a conversation starter.


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Adam Kotsko
@adamkotsko
The internet has radicalized centrists, producing an insular subculture that lashes out violently against any perceived dissent.
11:09 PM · Jan 23, 2020·Twitter Web App
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Adam Kotsko
@adamkotsko
·
10h
Replying to
@adamkotsko
Whenever I engage with mainstream liberals, it is just as jarring as when I accidentally bump up against very online Trad Catholics or libertarians or Gamergaters or whatever. The same alien talking points, delivered with the same exasperated smugness.
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Adam Kotsko
@adamkotsko
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10h
The Russia conspiracy redpilled our liberal brothers and sisters. They're lost to us, just as surely as the hardened alt-righters. From now on, it's conspiracy theory all the way down, even in the ostensible centrist mainstream.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Centrist to me means "willing to compromise with others to win elections". A radical proposition in these troubled times.

That thread is about the US though so God knows. They seem to be flailing about a bit there.
 

droid

Well-known member
Radical centrists queue orderly at the foodbank and politely hold the cattle car doors open.
 

droid

Well-known member

EL7nf_NWwAAIXWa


Plus ça change...
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
The point some of these people are making is that parts of the right are so far right these days that in compromising with them you're allowing some pretty awful shit, also you're assuming they're genuinely looking to compromise with you and aren't just going to push and push and push whilst continually acting in bad faith. See: Obama whenever he tried to compromise with the GOP.

Can't argue with that tbh, esp as trolling has now escaped the interwebs and become a recognised part of political discourse.

I do think that thinking about electability and compromise are useful for anyone interested in politics, even just as a mode of self-critique. It's vital in the UK with FPTP, big regional voting blocks like Scotland etc.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
EL7nf_NWwAAIXWa


Plus ça change...

Hahaha, a newspaper cutting from the 1930s. How very relevant.

The UK is undergoing a hard-right anti-democratic coup by a cabal of disaster-capitalist chancers and hardline racist ideologues, very probably with the collusion of a hostile foreign power. The "centrists" you excoriate (and I'm going to assume you're including the whole of Labour outside of the Corbyn clique, because that's how the word is usually used) have attempted to stop this. Most of the hard left has stood aside and watched, at best, if not actively facilitated it.
 

luka

Well-known member
I identify Danny, Tea and Rich as members of The Radical Centre Centrists Coalition.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
The problem with centrism is that it is a floating signifier.

You end up triangulating your opinions and strategies against what “the extremes” are up to. This is very very very bad.

What I keep having a go at Danny about is that it’s just as coherent - better in fact - to attack Corbyn from the left as from “the centre”. Danny has more in common with the anti-Leninist anarcho-communists I knock about with than Owen Smith and Liz Kendal.

And Jo Swinson. And Nick Clegg. And Mike Gapes. And that “funny tinge” woman.

These people don’t believe in anything. And they aren’t even fun to get pissed with like real nihilists.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
I do think that thinking about electability and compromise are useful for anyone interested in politics, even just as a mode of self-critique. It's vital in the UK with FPTP, big regional voting blocks like Scotland etc.

It’s good to have a grip on this stuff but it can be very addictive and we’ve lost enough good people to the Labour Party over the last few years, thank you very much.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Does anyone here identify as a 'radical centrist'? Tea? Barty?

Centrism is arguable two things; one an electoral strategy and one a very broad ideology. The former would refer essentially to not being a purity candidate and adjusting to the views/whims/superstitions of the electorate; so I’d imagine Blair for example was less socially conservative than he presented himself to the electorate and likewise Brown was less fiscally conservative than he would have portrayed himself in the late-90’s. Centrism as an ideology on the other hand acknowledges that both markets and governments have their strengths and their failures and as such rejects socialism and libertarianism, instead opting for a mixed economy the balance of which ranges from anywhere between Thatcherism or Cameronism to the “Nordic model”.

I identity myself as a centrist, though obviously “radical centrist” is a naff and embarrassing (though I might have been the one who introduced the term to Luke). The reason the term “radical centrist” was coined was because of the frustration that the centre has with being equated with the status quo; centrists may well want a huge overhaul of how things are done, they just happen to not see either the market or the government as the sole agents of such an overhaul. So for example policies such as land value taxes, helicopter money, loosening planning constraints, carbon taxes, more regionalism, etc.

There’s also the resentment about equating being left-wing with being progressive. So for example (if I’m remembering correctly) both the 2017 and 2019 Labour manifestos were more regressive than their Lib Dem counterparts (and as it happens more regressive than New Labour).
 

mvuent

Void Dweller
Ginsberg’s poem famously begins “I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness”. I am luckier than Ginsberg. I got to see the best minds of my generation identify a problem and get to work.

you can clearly see which of these two writers has better artistic instincts though lol
 

luka

Well-known member
Centrism is arguable two things; one an electoral strategy and one a very broad ideology. The former would refer essentially to not being a purity candidate and adjusting to the views/whims/superstitions of the electorate; so I’d imagine Blair for example was less socially conservative than he presented himself to the electorate and likewise Brown was less fiscally conservative than he would have portrayed himself in the late-90’s. Centrism as an ideology on the other hand acknowledges that both markets and governments have their strengths and their failures and as such rejects socialism and libertarianism, instead opting for a mixed economy the balance of which ranges from anywhere between Thatcherism or Cameronism to the “Nordic model”.

I identity myself as a centrist, though obviously “radical centrist” is a naff and embarrassing (though I might have been the one who introduced the term to Luke). The reason the term “radical centrist” was coined was because of the frustration that the centre has with being equated with the status quo; centrists may well want a huge overhaul of how things are done, they just happen to not see either the market or the government as the sole agents of such an overhaul. So for example policies such as land value taxes, helicopter money, loosening planning constraints, carbon taxes, more regionalism, etc.

There’s also the resentment about equating being left-wing with being progressive. So for example (if I’m remembering correctly) both the 2017 and 2019 Labour manifestos were more regressive than their Lib Dem counterparts (and as it happens more regressive than New Labour).

Tbh I was just thinking of the word 'twaddle'
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
twaddle is a word you use when minorities start complaining about their rights. a bit like when all those women mp's were getting threats and boris said it was humbug.
 
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