Splitting. Bifurcation.

luka

Well-known member
So with the rap thing. Some people were saying we don't want to worship money. We don't want every decision we make to be determined by money. That's not a reactionary position per se. It's just that they tied their project to a musically regressive form. So it gets tangled.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
i suppose the smaller groups are more natural to understand. maybe the more interesting question is how do the coallitions get formed in the first place.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
So with the rap thing. Some people were saying we don't want to worship money. We don't want every decision we make to be determined by money. That's not a reactionary position per se. It's just that they tied their project to a musically regressive form. So it gets tangled.

to be fair street rap has been caning the same type of 808 beat structure since young jeezy.

bit before Barty's time sorry.

Ok, not *the exact same beat structure* that would be exagerrating. I mean that to outsiders most developments would sound like technical refinements. Obviously excluding the kanye/death grips stuff here.
 
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blissblogger

Well-known member
Rock history is full of them

you got the mid-sixties, everything swirling around together, experimental and weird or exotic influences (raga, etc) coming in but it's still dance music in some sense and still pop (jimi hendrix first album nearly every song is about 3 or 4 minutes)

then that splits into the progressive direction (very long tracks, undanceable, etc) versus the 2-minute bubblegum pop (which then becomes glam).

the overly brainy versus the merely physical / sentimental. FM radio versus AM radio.

and then another moment is punk / early postpunk, where loads of ideas and impulses are swirling but still contained within pretty direct and visceral and focused music (e.g. the first Joy Division album, which is essentially a hard rock album with weird sonic hollows in it)

but then the centrifugal syndrome sends the various elements off into their own directions - industrial, Goth, synthpop etc - more defined genres but much narrower

going with your coalition metaphor, or the idea of political parties that contain different populations, classes, interest groups, regional groups, etc, so that they are effectively coalitions

the coalition-moment in rock history are the ones where the music is able to dominate the pop mainstream - like a political party winning a landslide election.

1965-68 you have records like 'Strawberry Fields Forever' and artists like Hendrix actually in the pop charts - because the experimental impulses are contained within the focused economy of the pop single

then all that becomes what they called the Underground - progressive music - like an opposition party that can't speak the language of the masses
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
sure sure i was playing devils advocate there it's not a position i cling to religiously. I'd say dilla is the best out of that trad skool of beat making. but then seening him as afrofuturism just goes over my head.
 

luka

Well-known member
Rock history is full of them

you got the mid-sixties, everything swirling around together, experimental and weird or exotic influences (raga, etc) coming in but it's still dance music in some sense and still pop (jimi hendrix first album nearly every song is about 3 or 4 minutes)

then that splits into the progressive direction versus the bubblegum pop (which then becomes glam)

the overly brainy versus the merely physical / sentimental

and then another moment is f punk / early postpunk, where loads of ideas and impulses are swirling but still contained with pretty direct and visceral and focused music (e.g. the first Joy Division album, which is essentially a hard rock album with weird sonic hollows in it)

but then the centrifugal things sends various elements off into their own directions - industrial, Goth, synthpop etc - more defined genres but much narrower

going with your coalition metaphor, or the idea of political parties that contain different populations, classes, interest groups, so that they are effectively coalitions

the coalition-moment in rock history are the ones where the music is able to dominate the pop mainstream - like a political party winning a landslide election.

1965-68 you have records like 'Strawberry Fields Forever' and artists like Hendrix actually in the pop charts - because the experimental impulses are contained within the focused economy of the pop single

then all that becomes what they called the Underground - progressive music - like an opposition party that can't speak the language of the masses


Weird when Simon pretends to be 70 when we know he is a youthful 55
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
there's actually very little 'real hip hop.' I mean, stuff that is still above 120+ bpm in the mantronix/ultramagnetic mcs/marley marl lineage. so that's always an interesting way to look at it. an imagined golden age.
 

luka

Well-known member
there's actually very little 'real hip hop.' I mean, stuff that is still above 120+ bpm in the ultramagnetic mcs/marley marl lineage. so that's always an interesting way to look at it. an imagined golden age.

Well, as a digression, it's interesting what gets taken to mean 'real hiphop' it's basically every producer who contributes to illmatic. It's that sound pallets. That structure. There's no rza in there. There's no havoc in there. It's smooth jazz vibes and chopped samples. That's it. The head nod.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
similarly with happy hardcore. the back to 91-92 sets are not representative. all the proto-darkside is generally downplayed.
 
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