Splitting. Bifurcation.

luka said:

Chronic and doggystyle are miracles. And also no one tried to replicate it. I
It was too professional. Too good. You couldn't copy it

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chronic the very begining of rap being tennable for me. it's the first one that doesn't sound like benny goodman. give or take paid in full (the track)

luka said:

It was conceived as an east coast rebuttal to the chronic. How do we sell those numbers.. How do we be that glamorous. This is why biggie was at the crux of the east west coast wars.

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and pac's the west coasts answer to the east.

sadmanbarty said:

and pac's the west coasts answer to the east.

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a terrible answer to a great question

pac's a good example of post-1990 music being embarrassing when it's trying to be uplifting or conscious.

luka said:

Yeah I know and although part of me wants to say this is bad the truth is it's much the same for me. In the early 90s rap seemed like grandad music hopelessly antiquated. I was listening to hardcore. Rap was uncle music for the out of touch.

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i get personal preferences can't be mapped onto history but this isn't even a fair comparison. rap vs chicago house/detroit techno would be better.

Like the US didn't have a hardcore equivalent really. unless you get into miami electro type stuff.

detroit bass from 93.

every response to third today has been about peoples respective ages when certain music was happening.

i guess what im trying to get at is when we can accept the uncool. when it would be right to do so. I'm not into fashion so i wouldn't know. noone can listen to my music.

I mean if i wasn't gestating in allah's deep web womb i would probably have sided with Luke, if that helps. but then i would have probably boned mrs campbell for some lsd that she kept on the down low after giving up her crusty lifestyle. put it to good use going to hardcore acid warehouse parties in 93-94, aswell as laserdrome for strictly ragga jungle ofc.

sadmanbarty said:

it's playing up to an idea of black identity that's completely antagonistic to everything real rap stands for. its criminal, hyper sexual, boistrous, partying, weed, etc.

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Breaking from 'real hip hop' is an act of incredible cultural defiance, not defiance against 'real hip hop' but against the larger culture that kept it marginalized. Real hip hop emphasized the struggle of black people, it was socially conscious and true to the roots of black music by making itself up of soul and funk sampling. It followed in geneaology of aesthetic expression that is eternally tied to struggling, to coping with hardship, staying united, to values such as empathy and thoughtfulness but also religious faith. Meanwhile the rest of pop culture raced off into material hedonism, hip hop was kept in its corner, let em have their morals and their brotherly love while we have fun, a cultural narrative echoing slave / master morality, letting slaves sing their songs in the field to keep their spirit up, while they drank in the shade.

Breaking with 'real hip hop' was defiance. It's boistrous, because no man should be chained to slave morality, it was hyper-sexual because of defiance against confinement to the virtues that allowed for religious faith, most importantly, it's criminal because it takes on white capitalism while refusing to play by its rules, saying fuck your way, we find our own.

(I wrote this a bit quick, I realize the slave morality bit walks incendary ground, if there's something wicked to my point, it's because I didn't think it through)

wtf is 'real hip hop'??

luka said:

Real hip hop was invented as a reaction to puff daddy. See the hip-hop culture wars thread for more information.

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I'm simply asking what the people who are using the term in this thread define it as.