GRIME- breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc

zhao

there are no accidents
something else like, what was that fake genre dissenssians invented about a year ago? cardigan-step? what was it called?
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
Or you could look at it like a genre like US hiphop, where the artists developed from using a DMX and a mic to sampling to being the biggest global force in the world. I hate the kind of reductionism that demands artists keep doing what they did 5 years ago. People can't keep making 'Pulse X' forever, give the guys some slack and let them develop.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
yeah the different neighborhoods in london and all over england, well, why not all over the world, should develop their own grime sound. maybe I'll make some chinese grime. the street slang sure is aggressive enough.
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
yeah the different neighborhoods in london and all over england, well, why not all over the world, should develop their own grime sound. maybe I'll make some chinese grime. the street slang sure is aggressive enough.

That would totally rule, I imagine it sounding like the hardest, most frightening music ever actually. Do it!
 

Tyro

The Kandy Tangerine Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhao
yeah the different neighborhoods in london and all over england, well, why not all over the world, should develop their own grime sound. maybe I'll make some chinese grime. the street slang sure is aggressive enough.

That would totally rule, I imagine it sounding like the hardest, most frightening music ever actually. Do it!

If I said that this had already been done by ''That Chinese Boy'' Mr Wong and the result was less than thrilling,would that be a 'reductive' statement? And now that I have said that can I claim a prize for being the 500th poster on this forum to use the word reductive?
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
Or you could look at it like a genre like US hiphop, where the artists developed from using a DMX and a mic to sampling to being the biggest global force in the world.

i doubt that would happen. yeah, grime has a lot of individual, musically unique stuff going for it, but its like something like ghetto tech or baile funk, its still rap music and basically just a regionalised reaction to hip-hop. and the fact even grime artists are saying they find hip hop boring these days doesnt bode too well. what are they going to get inspired by?

I hate the kind of reductionism that demands artists keep doing what they did 5 years ago. People can't keep making 'Pulse X' forever, give the guys some slack and let them develop.

no one wants pulse x again and again. they just dont want kanye-pharrell-timbo sounding stuff.

Or you could argue that it's just time for something else to take grime's place.

i hope so.
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
one thing that does bother me about hadouken and all that lot, the alleged interlopers, is music aside, it seems like its so much easier to get signed right now if youre a white mc. all those rubbish guys getting signed to the beats label, its a slap in the face to guys that should have gotten signed like doogz, trim or riko or whoever.
 

Tyro

The Kandy Tangerine Man
i doubt that would happen. yeah, grime has a lot of individual, musically unique stuff going for it, but its like something like ghetto tech or baile funk, its still rap music and basically just a regionalised reaction to hip-hop. and the fact even grime artists are saying they find hip hop boring these days doesnt bode too well. what are they going to get inspired by?

But boredom is surely the 'Mother Of Invention' for the young musician.Being bored by Yes and Genesis didnt do The Sex Pistols any harm in the 70's.

With regards to Baile Funk.The few tracks I have heard sounded like retro Run DMC to my ears.Certainly none of it sounded as fresh as standard UK Grime.Has anyone got any recent Baile Funk recommendations?


http://www.myspace.com/thekandytangerineman
 

Tyro

The Kandy Tangerine Man
one thing that does bother me about hadouken and all that lot, the alleged interlopers, is music aside, it seems like its so much easier to get signed right now if youre a white mc. all those rubbish guys getting signed to the beats label, its a slap in the face to guys that should have gotten signed like doogz, trim or riko or whoever.

Signing Hadouken is a safe bet in every sense.They are an easily marketable 'student friendly' pop group and the thought of being slapped by one of them wouldn't cause anyone to lose any sleep.Unfortunately an artists 'reputation' can serve to overshadow their creative ability.This is true not only in Grime but in any genre of music.To end on a more posititve note though,isn't Trim now signed to Mike Skinners label?
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
i dont think he is signed to the beats. there were better artists to sign with mike skinner instead. you know, like the mitchell brothers, professor green and example.
 

Tyro

The Kandy Tangerine Man
i dont think he is signed to the beats. there were better artists to sign with mike skinner instead. you know, like the mitchell brothers, professor green and example.

Thats a great shame.I heard a track that they did on Rinse as a dub a while back [called 'Scars' I think].Not pure Grime,but it sounded like it had good 'crossover' appeal.I also heard that he had left Roll Deep and put two and two together regarding a deal!
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
well i dont know for sure, maybe he IS signed to them. if so, i hope it turns out better than that they gave him an inch track off run the road 2 though, cos that was pretty dire. but really, i dont think he has a deal. would have heard about it by now cos its mike skinner.
 

viktorvaughn

Well-known member
i dont think he is signed to the beats. there were better artists to sign with mike skinner instead. you know, like the mitchell brothers, professor green and example.

But Green has beef with MS and the mitchell brothers right? Cos i think on the roll deep rmx of 'routine check' i have a 30 second vocal of him is on at the end dissing them. Didn't know they were labelmates. Anyone have the back story?

I havent decided whether Trim getting out was a good or bad career move. He has that tune i've heard on Rinse a few times, sounds pretty good. Can kinda imagine Roll Deep getting worse and worse from now on though....Trim has mad skills.

'I don't think i'm big / but my face is in the guardian'
 

petergunn

plywood violin
the problem with grime now is it just doesnt know what it wants to be. i find most of the tunes im hearing now not fast enough. theyre not really hip hop per se, but theyre not really uptempo either, which was the thing that previously made it defiantly 'not' hip hop. so you just have this wavering in-limbo sound thats not quite hip hop, not quite grime, which sounds like a copout. thats not new in grime but it seems to have affected 90% of the genre now. so you just have all these tracks made by guys that are aware the scene isnt going to blow up like they thought, so they seem to be retreating into the perceived safety of urrrrban mainstream hip hop/R&B type stuff .


it's true... at first the hip hop influenced stuff was cool, but it's gotten very draggy and reptitive and yes, bad fake Kanye and Dipset sounding... it can be done well, as a flourish, like i love Gangsters by Wiley and Guns N Roses by Ruff Sqwad and Wiley, but it's become the dominant sound of grime and it's dull...

on the other hand, i really like that "industry" dizzee track, as it basically sounds like the kind of beats the Neptunes make for the Clipse, but much nastier, better, and more fucked up...

also, although i love Virgo and Mr Slash, the whole "epic" thing is getting kinda retarded, too...

it's kinda funny that now that grime is getting more of a 70bpm emphesis, dubstep is coming out of that and going into more of a 140 feel... related to popularity and attendence of events, perhaps?

other tracks i like lately... Lethal B- "mr", just b/c it's a relief to hear d'explicit hasn't stopped producing grime (i love his 4/4 garage stuff, but he has a real feel for heavy grime) and yes, durty goodz is on fire...
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
ive pretty much always hated the epic sound.

i reckon the lethal b album is the one most likely to really deliver out of all the grime albums this year.
 
I thought I'd reply with other ppl's quote

and that otherwise I'll be on here all day

Now it is a much wider sound and you can get pretty much whatever you want from it. If you want bass driven jump up tunes, mid range melody driven skippers, hip hop-esque sample driven fare, or plodding half step wobblers they are all available from the many different producers working in the scene today.

I agree and disagree with Sama as yes it is true that you can get all different types of tracks in the scene now but esp. you as a DJ can't deny that there's not a influx of the sped-up vocal, half hip-hop/half grime type beats...you can't deny that seriously

now, you hear some really, really great stuff, but there's a weird shortage of huge tracks, played by everyone, that truly amaze...and i think a scene needs tracks like that. the last one was 'shank riddim' i reckon.

this I agree with totally and I think it's to do with the fact that the scene's economy has shifted from instrumentals on vinyl to mixtape tracks which are more or less album tracks which means more half step, hip hop type beats. what to do? *shrugs* blame operation trident

I think grime only getting going still. They have missed alot and I think people will be looking round for a music like grime more and more as time goes on.

Grime could do with getting into a warehouse rave type enviroment again like Sidewinders back at the Sanctuary. Most of the big anthem tunes like Pulse X and old Slimzee style tunes sound at there best in this sort of 3000+ capacity place imo (as appose to small clubs). Producers tend to produce for where they most likely think there track will be played so perhaps you would get more older grime styled tracks if something like this was happening?

just what I typed above. re: the first part...I hope so but in this current climate (which is slightly more extreme than a couple of years ago) how possible do you think this really is? I have a idea of a solution but am keeping that s*** under my New Era for now lol

it is actually totally shameless! how can he feel comfortable so entirely catting someone else's style?! its not even like he's drawn from it, he's just straight up jacked it

it gets worse though. that s*** made DAYTIME RADIO ONE and was single of the week on Jo Whiley's show last week! I got so muad I even tried txting in to hip her to Jamie but I doubt it worked. s*** is sickening. if I ever hear someone hear them then try say JME copies them...booooy. anyway I not that bothered about grime getting daytime radio play or whatever but I hate ppl who jack s*** and that's ssstraight up theft..actually I'm gonna do something about this? *dusts off filofax*

is it me or is Goodz hungry right now?

regulars on here know how much I like and hype Goodz...and I still do but........after all that beef ting there's no way he can have a career...there's like a million ppl still out for dude...

Word, they've managed to redefine the term "fucking awful".

why do ppl on here despise True Tiger so much? I say 'ppl on here' cos its not the first time someone's just gone mad on them. is it cos they know how to play instruments? cos their organised?

But seeing all these artists who flirt with association with Grime and street to give their average music credibility like N Dubbz, Sovereign, Lily Allen and Sway, whilst actual pioneers of music are neglected and clueless mainstream djs champion a piss poor knock off with a better melody really irritates me.

Would it REALLY be that much effort to give some of these grime acts access to a proper producer who can rework a proper grime beat and a proper grime lyric into some semblance of a successful song? Stick Terror and Sadie in a studio with some musical svenghali who can turn the uncut diamonds of their previous tracks into hits. Put Rapid in a stdio with ANYONE and help knock out a fucking banging true UK anthem with some proper vocal production to it. There untold talent that isn't being nurtured. Really gets me down sometimes seeing so much creativity going to waste.

as much as we disagree I know how you feel and that's what gets me a lot of the time but what your asking for in your 2nd paragraph is the same kind of stitled, static creativity that would kill thing...and I'm sure you didn't like the results? remember kano's album? I say let them work it out themselves...exploring ways of making songs and working within formats. grime has the right ideas to actually CHANGE how some songs are made. hey give Terror and Sadie a budget and let them make a whole album together - that's a Timbo and Aaliyah partnership if I've ever heard one

I was speaking to a mate yesterday who's a big record producer, and he doesn't do nothing he doesn't want to do anymore cos he was sick of working with majors who don't have a clue. No-one sells any records in the Uk anymore, really.

the year on year increase in album sales in the UK by the BPI say otherwise. PLUS the fact that most of the increase is tied to homegrown (albeit indie/alternative) talent means that the market is there

but if you look at the music industry right now, theyre very cautious about what 'urban' music theyre touching and developing. considering most of the majors here are global corporate companies, it doesnt look like anything rap-related is really high on their priorities. its a very conservative time.

which mean the time is right and ripe for INDEPENDENCE. its just that certain ppl don't really wanna do the hard graft to be legit and a actual company until someone else starts it like Boy Better Know and then everyone wanted to put out properly packaged product. but little do they know that independence will save the scene in a business sense and keep things moving

The point though is that I've been actively involved in the 'underground arts' for like 20 years now, and only know a handful of people who make a living off of what they do fulltime. Everyone else I know - and it's not reflection of the quality of the work - either has jobs or does illegal activity or ponces off the state in order to fund their work. This idea that artists in any genre exist from their work just isn't true on a large scale in the UK especially London at the moment, the cost of living over here is fucking expensive. Even people I know who run studios or galleries have to whore themselves to pay the bills.

Me personally I don't think 'we' should be looking for 'their' support, fuck em

blap! on the last line - that's the right way of thinking about it...and would of actually saved major label hip-hop in the states imo...but then also would have stopped its global spread which isn't good...ahh my head hurts

what your saying in the 1st para is true though but then I guess you have to look into other income streams like DJ'ing, touring, merchandise, branding, sponsorship...there's so many and if you can't think of any...MAKE THEM!

And seeing as in 2007 there are 6 Grime albums scheduled for a release in the first half of the year, I would say it is doing better than it has in a long while. Sales are up, output is up, quality is up. It just needs a helping hand to make it something which is marketable, without resorting to knocking out endless wifey riddims and heartbreak avenues.

what albums are they? sales are up? vinyl or cd? also wifey riddims and heartbreak avenues are needed in the same way that Tempa T and Purple are needed...you always need a genre to spread wings otherwise blah blah blah creative cul-de-sac. plus they do bring some attention to the scene. yeah it starts off on the wrong foot but then those ppl may get tuned into other stuff

Kano - Is This Grimey Enough - 679
Kano - Anger Management Freestyle - 679
Lethal B - Mr - Lethal Bizzle Records
Dirty Goodz - Smash - Dub
Roll Deep - Celebrate (Jme Remix) - Roll Deep
Jme - Serious Remix - Boy Better Know
Ruff Squad - Xtra - Ruff Squad
Ruff Squad Ft Bashy, Wretch 32 & L Man - Xtra Remix - Love Doe
Tinchy Styder - Breakaway - Takeover
Dirty Goodz - Switching Songs Part 2 - Dub
Ghetto - Top 3 Selected - Adamantium Music
Keedo - Top 3 Selected Freestyle - Dub
Wretch 32 Ft Ghetto - Fed Up Of Grinding - M.O.V.E.M.E.N.T.
Trim - Money Up Front Part 1 - Soul Food Vol 1
Dimples - D.I.M.P.L.E.S. - Reignessence
Jender - Nice - Dub
Dollar The Dustman - Bouces Road - Dub
President T - This Little Yout - Sounds Of The President T
Chronic Ft Wiley, Skepta & Esco - Bumbaclart Badman - Slew Dem
Scorcher - Fly Away - M.O.V.E.M.E.N.T.
Ghetto - Stage Show Don - M.O.V.E.M.E.N.T.
Doctor - Dun That - Dub
Aftershock - Work - Aftershock

Did most of those vocals really sound like hip hop? And did you listen to the mix? I always play the grimiest of instrumentals

to be honest I think you picked the wrong tracks against that hip-hop argument. can you really deny that a lot of the MC's dream of being on stage supporting Dipset and Dirty South rappers? I mean Keedo? Scorcher? Tinchy's track? the Movement as a whole (except for Devlin)? keep playing the hardcore instrumentals though
 
part 2

I've been djing hip hop in clubs recently and the grime tracks which sound a bit like hip hop are great for slipping in and getting people interested. People are like "what is this?" and then I say "its grime". Before fairly recently people didn't know what it was but that is definitely changing with people looking enthusiastic when they are told nowadays

which coincedes (baad spelling lol) with the scene's shifting more hip-hop centric sound... which is exactly what most of the ppl on this board are against...and I am too but like I typed...if it brings them in they can be turned on to other stuff. the danger is if that stuff becomes the defining sound...

Whatever you say about their motives, the bandwagon brigade are usually the ones who will switch the masses onto the scene, making it viable in the long-run. As blissblogger was mentioning the other day - it's usually those people who come into the scene through this route that end up being more militant about the real deal artists/tunes (i.e. the people who get into grime through Hadouken will probably end up saying that proper grime is nothing except a Nasty Crew set from Deja in 03).

I’m not down with the Hadouken sound, but having thousands of indie kids being exposed to grime-influenced sounds can only be a good thing for the scene.

big up bun-u...though it is a tightrope

I live in Toronto, and if these guys ever play in my hometown, Dissensus has my personal guarantee that I will rob them.

BIG UP SICK BOY lol! I'm not advocating armshouse though lol...

And as an aside, I think Sway is better than about 90% of the grime MCs out there

as much as Matt Mason drives me mad...I have to agree. and I'm not saying that cos he's Ghanaian lol though he isn't a Grime MC...just an MC who happens to like a bit of what Grime does - should he be punished for that? he's an immense talent with a smart head on his shoulders who I think along with BBK made the scene think 'wait...we CAN sell mixtapes!'

1) The big radio sets with like 8 or so MCs on. The live-o anarchic feel of the MCs just 'jamming' as it were has been lost. It has become less diverse i think. Its gone from a 'live' genre to an album genre (well kind of). Before at it's best it reminds me of jazz men bumping into each other and thinking 'why the fuck not' and just jamming for the sake of it, totally spontaneous.

2) What first grabbed me about Grime was that it combined my two favourite things in music - dance beats and rapping/rhyming/poetry/lyrics/wordplay. It is now undeniably closer to hiphop and further from garage than it was say 3 or 4 years ago. The ravey, dancey vibes with the occasional really driving 4x4 tune (musical mobb, alias etc). Most grime to me does not sound like a form of dance music and thats one thing i loved dearly about it before. I think maybe important in this has been the move in focus more towards the MC and away from the DJ. I mean MCs leaning backwards to rwd tunes is just rude in my opinion! Or shouting 'next one next one' until they get a riddim they like. Guess this has totally happened in hiphop over the years too....

The feminine pressure exerted then was from 'cheesy; female vocals from 2steppers of 4/4 grimey garage. It was drawing from our UK dance heritage. Now the feminine pressure is sped up helium female vocals where are clearly drawing from a US hiphop tradition

some bang on points here. re: 1). blame the rise of the mixtape, a more potent hip-hop influence, trident, beef between crews, fear of beef, loads of things but think also. don't you think it's got a lot of ppl more business minded and focused? its like mc's started realising that 'hey this isn't gonna pay for my weed?' so stopped juming on shows and getting down to recording, promoting and releasing tracks? if so..isn't that better in the end?

re: 2) the continued rise of the mc's WILL total things is not checked which means the DJ's have to fight back

re: your last point....welll your right innit lol?

anyone heard the aftershock album yet? its a bit dissapointing - a real mixed bag of a million different styles, and not that uptempo. some of the production is still great as youd expect but a lot of the MCs are just underwhelming. its recorded like a mixtape (is it an album or a 'street album', ie mixtape?) as well - vocals quite loud and 'over' the beat rather than inside it. i think my favourite track is track six, this funky house type of track. i hope it blows up.

this is what I don't understand though. the scene produces an album that doesn't compromise but instead tries to do whatever one was suggesting - write songs, keep it gully, have progressive production whatever and then it gets putdown. its a good thing that some of the ppl on this forums ain't the only fans of the scene otherwise we'll just have Napper and Tempa T on radio clashing over some early to mid Wiley production for the rest of their days

the version I heard through somebody was easily the best mixed underground release yet plus its sequenced quite well. apparently its being distributed by genepool or universal which if true is a big deal any info or confirmation on that? that funky house tune wasn't very good imo but I thought of John Eden (is that his name?) when I heard the tune with Badness, Maxwell D and Gappy Ranks...LAVA lol!

I've not heard the Aftershock album in full yet, so I can't comment, but I know there isn't a huge amount of hype on it's imminent release for whatever reason.

It is a shame because Terror Danjah has always been very consistent and I would have liked to have seen him have some wider success.

and when the scene's top DJ's can't get behind quality (behind the boards and product) then you might aswell call it a day...what's with the past tense?

I'm just happy to see good British artists like Sway come through. Imagine if he had gone the grime route, joined Roll Deep and just done war bars and radio or whatever, he'd probably have got nowhere. But he did his own thing, he made some very smart moves and the mainstream supported him. I respect that.

On that note, good luck to Hadouken as well. I only heard one of their songs, but I quite liked to be honest.

I agree with your Sway points but I'm not surprised at all that you like Hadouken...not at all

i dont mind tunes that split up the fast/slow dynamic between choruses but tracks that are right on that line between fast/slow aka half step, can either be great when its something like wonders what, but most of the time, i just think theyre cop out tracks, designed to trick listeners into thinking they are hip hop as well as grime or just not grime at all (maybe on some levels, this is cleverer - gets more people on board for one thing, in theory anyway, but just ends up being MOR). yes i know the syncopation and rhythms are still tweaked slightly differently but often i find its not different enough

or you could argue the mainstream pressure/expectation/hype post-dizzee was too much and created expectations the genre could never realistically meet

and sadly that's a lot of what is coming out but like you said perhaps its gets more ppl on board

re your second point.....BING lol!

yeah, grime has a lot of individual, musically unique stuff going for it, but its like something like ghetto tech or baile funk, its still rap music and basically just a regionalised reaction to hip-hop

no one wants pulse x again and again. they just dont want kanye-pharrell-timbo sounding stuff

lyrically your probably right but musically it wasn't

well 'growing sales' that Sama typed earlier say otherwise...heck the yout dem on buses say otherwiseso you must be speaking for yourself...blame Cameo for bringing in Low Deep

one thing that does bother me about hadouken and all that lot, the alleged interlopers, is music aside, it seems like its so much easier to get signed right now if youre a white mc. all those rubbish guys getting signed to the beats label, its a slap in the face to guys that should have gotten signed like doogz, trim or riko or whoever.

damn why am I quoting you so much lol? FACT though...

i dont think he is signed to the beats. there were better artists to sign with mike skinner instead. you know, like the mitchell brothers, professor green and example.

LMAO!

I havent decided whether Trim getting out was a good or bad career move. He has that tune i've heard on Rinse a few times, sounds pretty good. Can kinda imagine Roll Deep getting worse and worse from now on though....Trim has mad skills

Trim was my fav member (apart from funnily enough Manga and William). I think Roll Deep should just call it a day though. it just seems that there gonna end up like N.A.S.T.Y (where is 'N.A.S.T.Y By Nature'? there wasting themselves by letting there buzz die) - just an endless jumpoff for producers, mc's and other crew's
 
part f****** 3

it's true... at first the hip hop influenced stuff was cool, but it's gotten very draggy and reptitive and yes, bad fake Kanye and Dipset sounding... it can be done well, as a flourish, like i love Gangsters by Wiley and Guns N Roses by Ruff Sqwad and Wiley, but it's become the dominant sound of grime and it's dull...

although i love Virgo and Mr Slash, the whole "epic" thing is getting kinda retarded, too...

it's kinda funny that now that grime is getting more of a 70bpm emphesis, dubstep is coming out of that and going into more of a 140 feel... related to popularity and attendence of events, perhaps?

yup and yup

oh yeah yup

i reckon the lethal b album is the one most likely to really deliver out of all the grime albums this year.

bad news then - dexplicit isn't gonna have the lion's share of the album. actually word is lethal's tryna move away from grime and grime producers

also where is Jon E Cash? I didn't like his tunes that much and never that as an mc but his clean mixdowns, flood of vinyl and unique sound is missed by my ears

are Knuckle and Ears out of Neckle Camp?

sorry to all the people that I quoted - I hope I didn't misconstrue (baaaaad spelling) your points

well f*** that wasn't quicker

*grumbles to studio*
 

petergunn

plywood violin
i just realized who Hadouken remind me of: they are what EMF would sound and look like in 2007...

1507.jpg
 
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