DJ Lioness
Well-known member
Logan Sama said:
You didnt grow up on a council estate did you Logan?
GRIME- breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc
You didnt grow up on a council estate did you Logan?
outraygeous
Well-known member
i do and have and i think what hes gettin at is that there are opportunites here in the uk if you wana go get them
youngers get paid to stay in school these days
youngers get paid to stay in school these days
DJ Lioness
Well-known member
Those opportunities you speak of have only ever and will only ever be open to certain types of people, in the case of this music (so as not to drift too much) thats the reason illegal radio exists and is so heavily respected because its the only outlet for the people who cant access them...... opportunities
But i know kids paid to stay on in 6th form etc. Would work out better getting a full time job though
But i know kids paid to stay on in 6th form etc. Would work out better getting a full time job though
Last edited:
outraygeous
Well-known member
i hear you,
we all know the only pirates that are respected are the 'ragga' or commuinity stations as they liked to be called. when your a pirate and you give out landlines for shouts, your respected.
pirate radio is an expensive hobby that a few people have done and are doin very well at.
we all know the only pirates that are respected are the 'ragga' or commuinity stations as they liked to be called. when your a pirate and you give out landlines for shouts, your respected.
pirate radio is an expensive hobby that a few people have done and are doin very well at.
Logan Sama
BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
I grew up in a council estate for 6 years of my life. Then I moved to Africa for 3 years,
Then I moved to Essex.
And all of these opportunities in society are open to these kids. They are simply not made attractive to them. The number of people who drop out of school who do so due to poverty is negligable in this country.
From thousands of Asians and Eastern Europeans can move to this country penniless without being able to speak english and take full advantage of the systems in place that help people become productive members of society, everyone can do it.
Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.
Then I moved to Essex.
And all of these opportunities in society are open to these kids. They are simply not made attractive to them. The number of people who drop out of school who do so due to poverty is negligable in this country.
From thousands of Asians and Eastern Europeans can move to this country penniless without being able to speak english and take full advantage of the systems in place that help people become productive members of society, everyone can do it.
Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.
DJ Lioness
Well-known member
Living on a council estate for 21 years has shown me different, I know alot of people who were and are capable of doing good things but had to drop out of school at 16 because £30 a week EMA isnt enough money for bus fare, clothes and books despite their parents wages. I dont really think thats an opportunity open to everyone, you're right there are 'life lines' but not everyone is in a position to grab them. I wont comment on Asians etc as I think its a bit narrow-minded to compare in this instance.
But I guess you only see what you've lived - horses for courses.
But I guess you only see what you've lived - horses for courses.
Logan Sama
BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
If you get to 16 and you are having to go to a college that is charging money for courses and books and equipment you're fucked already. No sixth form college that teaches a normal curriculum and doesn't involve 500 kids all doing music tech or beauty therapy charges money to go to it.
I don't blame the kids for getting to that stage. If by the age of 16 all you have to go into is vocational courses then you have been let down somewhere along the line.
My point regarding asian and eastern european kids is that although I could bring up the fact that in this country there are no ghettoized areas in which ethnicities are separated and people who work in offices live next door to families of kids who still shot weed into their twenties, people still cling to the idea that different opportunities are presented to different people based on race. They are not. I believe the problem is that the infrastructure of suburban middle and upper working class britain makes kids focus on university places, A Levels and clerical jobs in financial institutions.
The opportunities are there and people living in identical conditions to all of these kids who end up wandering the streets in expensive clothing smoking expensive chemically enhanced weed take those opportunities.
I don't blame the kids for getting to that stage. If by the age of 16 all you have to go into is vocational courses then you have been let down somewhere along the line.
My point regarding asian and eastern european kids is that although I could bring up the fact that in this country there are no ghettoized areas in which ethnicities are separated and people who work in offices live next door to families of kids who still shot weed into their twenties, people still cling to the idea that different opportunities are presented to different people based on race. They are not. I believe the problem is that the infrastructure of suburban middle and upper working class britain makes kids focus on university places, A Levels and clerical jobs in financial institutions.
The opportunities are there and people living in identical conditions to all of these kids who end up wandering the streets in expensive clothing smoking expensive chemically enhanced weed take those opportunities.
Logan Sama said:
i gotta say, you might have a point... i'm going to be paying off my college education until i die. i meet british people and tell them this and they are astounded... 100,000 for school?????? yup.
and then straight to work after graduating. no government to give me dole for a year or two til i find myself. way some people have told me (and years of watching "the young ones"!) that's kinda a tradition in the uk, no?
i'm not saying the UK is so great, i'm just agreeing with Logan that the british government def. offers way more social services to young people, and in general ( i don't have health insurance and have to give fake fucking names at the emergency room if i ever get hurt so i can duck out on the bill ) than the USA...
DJ Lioness
Well-known member
Logan Sama said:
You're misunderstanding, text books arent free in colleges in fact they're not even free in secondary school, most are £25/£30 a pop and more time thats only to cover a few modules. Thats excluding travel, lunch and clothing expensives, I dont know if things are cheaper in Essex but £30 a week cant stretch that far. Also once kids turn 16 (or is it 18?) the extra benefits given to their parents stops, that leaves no opportunities but leaving education to get a full time job if your parents dont earn enough to support u whether youre gifted or not, or shottin work. Not forgetting Uni isn't free, you get in debt just to not be in it when you're older lol
There are ghetto or 'poor' areas though, just not to the extent of bloods and crips and segregation certainly exists. The opportunities better off people go on about are based on social status more than ethnicity, even though some would argue they can be mutually exclusive. I dont think you can deny that alot of the time your background influences your future and what opportunities you can actually make the most of.
Last edited:
hmm interesting discussion no doubt~~!!!
here in australia we have HECS which basically amounts to a 'free' education which comes out of your taxes once you start earning over a certain amount. a fair system, no doubt, but the caps fees have recently been lifted and the prices are increasing at a stupid rate (25% in the first year!).
logans comments make me wonder though - who from the grime scene is of asian or european descent? is there a reason that, if england is so non-race-segregated, ethnicities are not represented in the music in a ratio which reflects the general populus? (apart from the obvious 'indian dads dont listen to dancehall'?)
here in australia we have HECS which basically amounts to a 'free' education which comes out of your taxes once you start earning over a certain amount. a fair system, no doubt, but the caps fees have recently been lifted and the prices are increasing at a stupid rate (25% in the first year!).
logans comments make me wonder though - who from the grime scene is of asian or european descent? is there a reason that, if england is so non-race-segregated, ethnicities are not represented in the music in a ratio which reflects the general populus? (apart from the obvious 'indian dads dont listen to dancehall'?)
DJ Lioness said:
Two points that i experience (i'm a student in Holland, we have a fair system -- about £1100 course fee every year -- books add up to £400 a year -- we get free public transport through weekdays and a government grant based on parents finacial situation):
The sutdents that pay for their own education are a lot more motivated and get a lot more out of their education than kids that have everything payed by their parents. Putting yourself in debt isn't a bad thing, it's investing in yourself after all.....
For the same reason i don't believe in free education, as it diminishes the value of the course.
Another point about apportunities, in relation to different social ...(status/group/ethniticity), people from a 'lower' social group aren't introduced/exposed to certain thoughts. Childeren of a manager are introduced to his/her perspectives, which are largely formed by his/her work. Childeren of 'lower' class parents are introduced to perspectives that are formed by hardship and things that dont work out.
that makes for a far pessimistic perception of how big the step of putting yourself in debt to get a degree -- which ultimately makes it a very BIG step
And that then repeats and repeats and repeats -- turning it into a part of the culture
Like working 80 hours a week in a restaurant kitchen is part of the Chinese immigrants culture
So the point that I'll try and make from this ramble, is that the same possibilities are possible or impossible for different people -- because of their perception of it
Last edited:
WOEBOT said:cameo has always been friendly to me. but i've known him since he was a lowly record-store clerk
maybe he was late for the dentists or summat? i'm sure it wasn't personal mpc.
i dunno, it was nothing really. he was just saying weird stuff that i won't go into.
he didn't say grime's going nowhere, he just said that the best grime can hope for is to do ok on the underground.
btw, if i had to study at the poly on the strand, i'd have dropped out too logan
(only joking)
Logan Sama
BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
You're one of those LSE lot aren't you. Doesn't bother me anyways, it's allegedly one of the top 5 schools in the country for Physics.
I dropped out after 2 years because I found the repetition of degree level Maths to be dull and the Physics wasn't much better. Solving dozens 3 dimensional Matrices isn't the most enjoyable of things.
And books in secondary school are free. You don't have to pay for anything in secondary school other than uniform, a pencil case and a calculator. That's all I was ever bought. There is no reason why anyone in this country shouldn't get to 16 with 10 GCSE's if they are given the incentive and attention and focus to actually do the work. Especially now that Buses are free. I used to have to walk to school and it took me 40 minutes a day.... but this is sounding like a Monty Python sketch.
But the point is, as someone rasied earlier, that the opportunities are there for everyone but certain people are not being introduced to them or pushed down those channels.
I dropped out after 2 years because I found the repetition of degree level Maths to be dull and the Physics wasn't much better. Solving dozens 3 dimensional Matrices isn't the most enjoyable of things.
And books in secondary school are free. You don't have to pay for anything in secondary school other than uniform, a pencil case and a calculator. That's all I was ever bought. There is no reason why anyone in this country shouldn't get to 16 with 10 GCSE's if they are given the incentive and attention and focus to actually do the work. Especially now that Buses are free. I used to have to walk to school and it took me 40 minutes a day.... but this is sounding like a Monty Python sketch.
But the point is, as someone rasied earlier, that the opportunities are there for everyone but certain people are not being introduced to them or pushed down those channels.
i do chemistry at ucl, which is basically lots of dull maths and physics (quantum mechanics) plus lots of jargon about how to describe the energy states of electrons using lots of other jargon + lots of other useless information that i'm forced to learn.
i did some maths options in first year that involved orthogonalising matrices and stuff like that, which i still haven't grasped and hopefully will never need to.
Anyway, don't let me kill the discussion. Carry on kids.
i did some maths options in first year that involved orthogonalising matrices and stuff like that, which i still haven't grasped and hopefully will never need to.
Anyway, don't let me kill the discussion. Carry on kids.
mpc said:i do chemistry at ucl, which is basically lots of dull maths and physics (quantum mechanics) plus lots of jargon about how to describe the energy states of electrons using lots of other jargon + lots of other useless information that i'm forced to learn.
i did some maths options in first year that involved orthogonalising matrices and stuff like that, which i still haven't grasped and hopefully will never need to.
Anyway, don't let me kill the discussion. Carry on kids.
the birth of math-grime?
(let's hope not...)
S
simon silverdollar
Guest
well, dizzee's new one's called 'maths and english' innit...shudder said:
Logan Sama said:
if only.
yes - race doesnt necessarily have as much impact on EVERYTHING as some people might say or like to think and i like your 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' way of thinking, but its easy to say that race has no bearing on anything from the vantage point of being a white male in a majority white country.