IdleRich

IdleRich
I thought he had retired.
What a player he was though, unlucky to play in the era of Messi etc and perhaps be slightly less feted as a result. One of the best strikers I've ever seen.
Uruguay produced him and Cavani at the same time, I think they were the schoolboy forward line and then they played for the full side together for about fifty years, gonna be hard to replace.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
If your team was needing a goal in the dying seconds of a match and they had half a chance, who would you choose - if you could - to be the striker to whom it fell? You could do a lot worse than biter.
 

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
His cheating ruins any legacy

Tons of folks will remember him for biting, rolling on the floor, jumping up and down, when he was such a gifted, natural, all-round talent. Rivaldo comes to mind too. A cultured striker of the ball, like biter but how’s he remembered? Rolling round by a corner flag, clutching his face like he’d been maimed with half the world’s kids watching

Fantastic players, shower of cunts too, admit it’s slowly improving after finally optioning yellow cards for absurd acts of diving
 

version

Well-known member
Just reading Suarez is absolutely fucked. He's playing in Brazil atm and in so much pain he has to have daily injections and treatments. He should just retire at this point. Clearly run himself into the ground.

It seems like players are playing too many games these days. I had the same thought watching England the other night. The City players were coming off a 60-game season straight into international duty.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
It seems like players are playing too many games these days. I had the same thought watching England the other night. The City players were coming off a 60-game season straight into international duty.
Was ever thus though. I been reading articles complaining about that as long as I've been watching the game. In fact there are two closely intertwined but slightly different issues here.

The first is - do players play too many games in general over their careers with the ultimate result that there are too many injuries, shortened or blighted careers, competitions affected by teams who prioritize other tournaments... ultimately the standard of the game is lower than it could/should be cos most games are affected by injuries and tiredness.

The second is/was - do some teams ie English ones play too many games cos there are more teams in the Prem than Serie A or La Liga etc and there are two cup competitions and one has two legs.

The first question is very hard to answer. What's the optimum number of games? Is the aim of the sport to achieve the highest standard, or perhaps there should be an element of endurance that is recognized as part of what a winning team needs. Though with the way things are now that just favoured the richest clubs that can build two complete first teams.

The second thing is more relevant. It does seem that the prem is giving itself a built in disadvantage by being bigger. The way the game is now, top teams do play a ridiculous number of games and injuries are a hugely important factor. But how to make prem smaller... imagine the howls of anguish/rage if they announced they were gonna relegate a couple of extra teams next season.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
There was one thing I read years ago that seemed relevant at the time and always comes to my mind.

It's a funny thing but you don't normally get total outsiders winning in international football. Club football it happens every now and again - mainly in cups but occasionally in leagues - but I reckon that for every world cup in my lifetime if you had asked anyone who watched football to pick the best five teams, then every list would have the winner on it.

But there have been two major upsets in the Euros - when Denmark won after being added to the tournament after Yugoslavia were kicked out, and when Greece won. The former I can't explain, but I remember reading something I found quite compelling at the time, about how the Greek team having fewer players at the top level was by far the freshest compared to the other teams stuffed with stars who'd gone deep in European club competitions. Was it in Greece too? Sounded quite plausible to me that a team of players who were far less tired than the other sides, buoyed by home advantage and playing a very negative system, would prove extremely hard for the other theoretically more gifted sides to break down. Basically they were able to give themselves a very strong chance of reaching a shoot-out situation even against better sides, which arguably meant they could give themselves something like a fifty percent chance of victory in every game after the group stage.

As I recall it they had the fewest goals of any champion ever. My memory might be totally wrong mind. But I definitely reckon that even if it wasn't the whole reason, being relatively lightly raced can hardly have hurt can it?
 

jenks

thread death
Counter that with more subs, bigger squads. If you look back and see Liverpool, Forest, Villa all won the European Cup with about 14 players, it’s mind boggling.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Is the aim of the sport to achieve the highest standard, or perhaps there should be an element of endurance that is recognized as part of what a winning team needs. Though with the way things are now that just favoured the richest clubs that can build two complete first teams.
I'm obviously posing that question over a season, but you could equally ask it over a game. I think it's quite interesting to think about how it would change things if you were allowed as many changes as you like from your whole squad and you could put players back on after yanking them.

One could say it's already been decided that you pick your 11 with the the expectation that the majority of the players that start the game will finish it, sure you have a number of subs and then you can swap them in as players tire, get injured or simply play badly, but as a rule these all represent adjustments to a side, not a new side. Hence it's important that most players can play 90 minutes regularly, and I suppose there has to be a recognition that the game will be slower at the end - particularly if it goes to extra time or is in extreme heat or at high altitude.

But the number of subs allowed keeps getting bigger. I think first you were allowed one person available only in case of injury, then two. Then maybe subs were allowed tactically - some teams would have a goalie on the bench cos they reasoned that if gk got injured you were fucked. Then I guess they changed it so you were allowed a sub keeper and two outfield players. With the number on the bench, and the number of changes allowed only moving upwards it feels to me as though there is a general drift towards what I think of as "US sports style system" regarding changes (this is my understanding/memory of how the rules changed - but of course it varies by country, tournament, level etc etc so it's a sort of attempted summary or amalgamation or something).

I do like the tactical elements added by increasing the number of back-ups, though I'd never want to get to the stage like in American Football where they KO and then change the whole team after ten seconds.

Cos I think - correct me if I'm wrong - that in a lot of US sports you can take players off and put them back on, and I think in, say, ice hockey don't they often swap the entire line at a time? Presumably that means you can continuously bring on rested players who can attack the game as though it's the first minute. I assume that means that the game doesn't slow as much as ones where the same player has to last the whole game.

It's kinda interesting to imagine what football would be like if you could take players off and then put them back on. It would remove that dilemma where a team protecting a slender lead has to decide whether or not to pull the star forward and bring on an extra defender... and risk being fucked if they do concede.

I doubt changing a whole defence or midfield would produce a net gain though as the extra energy would be offset by a loss of organisation and settling into the game.

Anyway just kinda thinking allowed I guess. Partly cos if you play 5-a-Side friendly games like I do it's completely assumed you can take players on and off and on etc
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Counter that with more subs, bigger squads. If you look back and see Liverpool, Forest, Villa all won the European Cup with about 14 players, it’s mind boggling.
I just wrote a loooong rambling post about that if you care to read it. Not sure how much substance is there but possibly points for beginning debates.
 

jenks

thread death
I think there’s two strands - one is that the subs come on and just fit into the system like Barca in their pomp. Different players/same style; the other is the subs who come on and change the way a side plays, bringing width or being more direct or whatever. I think the latter is more common because most sides are unable to impose a style on a whole squad like Pep can. And, not always, but often, the sub is a downgrade on who they’re replacing - unless you’re City when you can have Alvarez warming the bench, for example.

Rugby is another example where substitutes are brought on wholesale, often at a seemingly prearranged time to keep the momentum up.
 

version

Well-known member
There was one thing I read years ago that seemed relevant at the time and always comes to my mind.

It's a funny thing but you don't normally get total outsiders winning in international football. Club football it happens every now and again - mainly in cups but occasionally in leagues - but I reckon that for every world cup in my lifetime if you had asked anyone who watched football to pick the best five teams, then every list would have the winner on it.

But there have been two major upsets in the Euros - when Denmark won after being added to the tournament after Yugoslavia were kicked out, and when Greece won. The former I can't explain, but I remember reading something I found quite compelling at the time, about how the Greek team having fewer players at the top level was by far the freshest compared to the other teams stuffed with stars who'd gone deep in European club competitions. Was it in Greece too? Sounded quite plausible to me that a team of players who were far less tired than the other sides, buoyed by home advantage and playing a very negative system, would prove extremely hard for the other theoretically more gifted sides to break down. Basically they were able to give themselves a very strong chance of reaching a shoot-out situation even against better sides, which arguably meant they could give themselves something like a fifty percent chance of victory in every game after the group stage.

As I recall it they had the fewest goals of any champion ever. My memory might be totally wrong mind. But I definitely reckon that even if it wasn't the whole reason, being relatively lightly raced can hardly have hurt can it?

The flip of this is a player like Haaland getting a mid-season break due to playing for an international side that didn't qualify for the World Cup.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I think there’s two strands - one is that the subs come on and just fit into the system like Barca in their pomp. Different players/same style; the other is the subs who come on and change the way a side plays, bringing width or being more direct or whatever. I think the latter is more common because most sides are unable to impose a style on a whole squad like Pep can. And, not always, but often, the sub is a downgrade on who they’re replacing - unless you’re City when you can have Alvarez warming the bench, for example.

Rugby is another example where substitutes are brought on wholesale, often at a seemingly prearranged time to keep the momentum up.
Of course you can bring on a sweeper or a false nine or whatever and switch the whole system around, but it's tricky to smoothly switch systems. The bigger the switch the harder. But always playing the exact same way... I guess that Barca side was criticised for having no plan b.
 
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