s e x

Z

zhao

there are no accidents
nomadologist said:
I don't like talking during sex--if you can think of words other than "oh" "god" and "fuck", then it's not very hot sex.
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"dirty little slut" is perfectly acceptable though. ;)

I hate straight, mainstream porn because it's too focused on nudity and obscenity without any actual sex appeal. A good lover will make you shake like a leaf before he even takes your clothes off. Also: the hottest sex is not necessarily loud and fast, it's slow/frantic and hushed, especially for the first 25 minutes.
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warning: rant ahead

women can be just as confused and brainwashed by boring mainstream notions of "hot" and proscribed, mediatized sexual behavior as men. a beautiful girl who doesn't know her own body/needs/desires and what to do with them if she did; who doesn't understand subtlety, understatement, and the (afore mentioned) art of not touching, of slow building tension; who thinks she wants a stereotypical "hot fuck"; makes it very, very disspointing. (and it seems like the more "attractive" ones are more likely to be self-conscious, prone to "self objectification" and get caught up in such notions. the good-looking-but-boring-in-the-sack type. sigh...) it's like "is that ALL you want???"

also, the over compensation of "liberated" and "feminist" attitudes in many educated (usually young) women can be restrictive in the sense of not allowing themselves to embody what constitutes at least a part of traditional feminine qualities such as submissiveness (i.e. "don't touch my head while i do that" or "i don't like doggy style")

and maybe more than men, women are prone to (again media induced) fantasies of idealized ideas of "romantic". (similar to the unattainable ideal "perfect prince charming" and "living happily ever after") which can take the fun and spontaneity out of it, not to mention TACKY.

NB to men: "Foreplay" should be purposely minimal. It should be about witholding touch for as long as possible, not overstimulating nerves until they don't work anymore.
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i don't know how ANYONE can not understand that this should be avoided. yet so many don't... what, are you made of plexi-glass down there? do you think I am???

tenderness and urgency, not theatrics.
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theater can be a total turn on though.

growing up with ubiquitous representations, it is difficult to not be influenced by, and even become addicted to perverse self-absorbed and ego-maniacal voyeuristic theatricality... like that scene in American Pyscho where he's less interested in the prostitutes and more into looking in the mirror and flexing.
 
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nomadologist

Guest
zhao said:
"dirty little slut" is perfectly acceptable though. ;)
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"Whore" "prick" "ass", etc, but complete sentences are pushing it.

women can be just as confused and brainwashed by boring mainstream notions of "hot" and proscribed, mediatized sexual behavior as men. a beautiful girl who doesn't know her own body/needs/desires and what to do with them if she did; who doesn't understand subtlety, understatement, and the (afore mentioned) art of not touching, of slow building tension; who thinks she wants a stereotypical "hot fuck"; makes it very, very disspointing. (and it seems like the more "attractive" ones are more likely to be self-conscious, prone to "self objectification" and get caught up in such notions. the good-looking-but-boring-in-the-sack type. sigh...) it's like "is that ALL you want???"
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this is so true. this is one of my pet peeves. i watch some of my otherwise very intelligent female friends do this--and more often than not, these are girls who have admittedly literally never had an orgasm from sex. to be honest, i really think they play it fast and loud just to get it over with more quickly.

also, the over compensation of "liberated" and "feminist" attitudes in many educated (usually young) women can be restrictive in the sense of not allowing themselves to embody what constitutes at least a part of traditional feminine qualities such as submissiveness (i.e. "don't touch my head while i do that" or "i don't like doggy style")
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wow, is anyone really so anti-sex-positive anymore? sounds like a Bryn Mawr girl from 1955!! submitting has nothing to do with gender, necessarily, unless you want it to. i'm a switch so i can do both, whee. (prefer to bottom though) i think some girls might be afraid of how much they like getting held down, abused, etc, like it will knock points off their feminist credibility. pff.

and maybe more than men, women are prone to (again media induced) fantasies of idealized ideas of "romantic". (similar to the unattainable ideal "perfect prince charming" and "living happily ever after") which can take the fun and spontaneity out of it, not to mention TACKY.
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gag. these are girls who probably would also say "i love you" during sex, which is so redundant and misplaced as to be ridiculous.

theater can be a total turn on though.
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any experienced switch can tell when you're faking in a second.

growing up with ubiquitous representations, it is difficult to not be influenced by, and even become addicted to perverse self-absorbed and ego-maniacal voyeuristic theatricality... like that scene in American Pyscho where he's less interested in the prostitutes and more into looking in the mirror and flexing
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hahahahha. maybe this is why i prefer skinny guys? that and because they're prettier.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
interesting to see number of viewers of Miscellaneous section jump from 0 to 5 in like, 30 seconds after this post :D

nomadologist said:
more often than not, these are girls who have admittedly literally never had an orgasm from sex. to be honest, i really think they play it fast and loud just to get it over with more quickly.
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my ex used to say that most girls don't have satisfactory sex until after they are 30... what with all the fears and repression and "body issues" and inhibitions and false notions... :(

wow, is anyone really so anti-sex-positive anymore? sounds like a Bryn Mawr girl from 1955!!
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that would be a resounding Yes. girls that are anti-lingerie, anti-certain positions, not into this, not into that... not into fun! i think repressiveness in the 2000s probably (at least) rival that of the 50s. and women tell me that men are as repressed as ever also -- most common descriptors being "mechanical", "no fluidity", "no spontaneaty", no sense of "play" and "no fun".

gag. these are girls who probably would also say "i love you" during sex, which is so redundant and misplaced as to be ridiculous.
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yeah it's such a turn off - the subscription to and investment in cliches.

any experienced switch can tell when you're faking in a second.
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by theater i did NOT mean faking. i was more thinking of during process of seduction (and maybe foreplay?)... the "dance" and all that.

hahahahha. maybe this is why i prefer skinny guys? that and because they're prettier.
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are you saying skinny guys are less prone to self absorption and narcisism? that seems groundless... "pretty boys"? hello?
 
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Gavin

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
nomadologist said:
wow, is anyone really so anti-sex-positive anymore? sounds like a Bryn Mawr girl from 1955!! submitting has nothing to do with gender, necessarily, unless you want it to. i'm a switch so i can do both, whee. (prefer to bottom though) i think some girls might be afraid of how much they like getting held down, abused, etc, like it will knock points off their feminist credibility. pff.
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Have you read any young feminist blogs? There is a (not exactly lively) debate in that portion of the blogosphere about blowjobs. I am not going to track down the blog/thread, but I read a post by a girl who said women could never possibly enjoy it, that it was always a gross patriarchal/misogynist imposition. Many commenters agreed, and added other sex acts to the list like anal, probably doggystyle too, I don't remember exactly. Like only doing missionary is somehow more legitimately feminist or something -- exactly like evangelicals/Puritans say, totally fucking weird!

A few saner commenters said stuff like "reciprocity: I want him to eat my pussy" which isn't a great argument, but understandable. Then the gay men show up and show these poor girls how blinkered their views are: "Uh, buttsex can be awesome!" Hilarious. I think these poor well meaning women's studies majors are probably suffering from never having good sex, like many (most?) women in this country at least. And then making the personal political as they've been instructed to do.

Ah the evil things I can say here that I could sadly never get away with in a seminar...

I do think so-called "sex-positive" or "third-wave" or "post-feminism" at least in some forms is overreaction/co-optation, and I distrust it mightily.

Just read an interesting post on feminists and anti-porn crusades, which in my very shallow understanding really sapped the energies of second wave feminism: http://codepoetics.com/poetix/?p=480
 
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nomadologist

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zhao said:
my ex used to say that most girls don't have satisfactory sex until after they are 30... what with all the fears and repression and "body issues" and inhibitions and false notions... :(
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this sounds about right. at least if you're talking about Americans. i've read french women report being more orgasmic in general.

that would be a resounding Yes. girls that are anti-lingerie, anti-certain positions, not into this, not into that... not into fun! i think repressiveness in the early 2000s probably (at least) rival that of the 50s. and women tell me that men are as repressed as ever also -- most common descriptors being "mechanical", "no fluidity", "no spontaneaty", no sense of "play" and "no fun".
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huh, interesting. this goes completely against the grain of what the mainstream media would tell you about feminism ruining "girlhood" and making girls overly sexually aggressive. (how could you be anti-lingerie? the thong is one of the greatest inventions of all time, for reasons that extend way beyond how they look. as are underwire bras.)

thing is, i often find male repression comes in the form of only wanting missionary position, dry, vanilla sex as well. i have a friend who is a model, so he is constantly pursued by girls. one asked him to wear a vibrating cock ring, and he literally freaked the fuck out and dumped her.

are you saying skinny guys are less prone to self absorption and narcisism? that seems groundless...
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not necessarily. i like the look of slender people best. not a big fan of the look of the "beefed up" type, and on the east coast (especially among italian-americans i guess) there's a ton of male vanity wrapped up in that steroid buff look.
 
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nomadologist

Guest
Gavin said:
Have you read any young feminist blogs? There is a (not exactly lively) debate in that portion of the blogosphere about blowjobs.
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I try not to, probably for reasons relating to this example.

Are you kidding me? Oral and anal sex are great. Especially once you get good at them, so there's no angst or mechanical problems. One of the best things about sex is giving pleasure, which, I guess you're right, these girls probably have never given or received in any real measure, so they are clueless. So many women's studies majors just want to talk about Barbie making them feel fat and how they used to puke so they could lose 10 lbs during the hectic rush season.

So a girl can like getting eaten out, but then claim that sucking dick is a symptom of Stockholm Syndrome, which she only performs for reciprocation? whaaaa no. No. People aren't this stupid are they? That is the least sexy thing I've ever heard.
 
Gavin

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
nomadologist said:
not necessarily. i like the look of slender people best. not a big fan of the look of the "beefed up" type, and on the east coast (especially among italian-americans i guess) there's a ton of male vanity wrapped up in that steroid buff look.
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Oh it is way bigger than Italians: plenty of cornfed midwestern boys spend lots of time and money beefing up, shaving/waxing, tanning, coiffing so they can look like porn stars (who make all their money in GAY porn)/Abercrombie models (likewise prolly) -- and then act all masculine/"dude I don't give a fuck." I used to yell "Shave yr chest!" out the car window at these dudes all while they played topless beer pong.

This sexualization/objectification of the disciplined male body creates weird effects in the gym... I never went to the gym except occasionally in grad school (there was really nothing to do); extremely homoerotic -- grunting dudes all checking each other out CONSTANTLY, talking about their bodies, spotting for each other -- and of course compensated by extremely homophobic conduct there and elsewhere. I dressed extra faggy in that town in an attempt to disrupt this absurd symbolic order -- hilarious, and I never even got my ass kicked.

These dudes all want their high school football coach to fuck them in the ass I think.
 
Gavin

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
nomadologist said:
I try not to, probably for reasons relating to this example.

Are you kidding me? Oral and anal sex are great. Especially once you get good at them, so there's no angst or mechanical problems. One of the best things about sex is giving pleasure, which, I guess you're right, these girls probably have never given or received in any real measure, so they are clueless. So many women's studies majors just want to talk about Barbie making them feel fat and how they used to puke so they could lose 10 lbs during the hectic rush season.

So a girl can like getting eaten out, but then claim that sucking dick is a symptom of Stockholm Syndrome, which she only performs for reciprocation? whaaaa no. No. People aren't this stupid are they? That is the least sexy thing I've ever heard.
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It's funny how they are so much the flipside of the slutty "hot" girl syndrome of American chicks (both still totally reliant on status quo symbolic order, whether to buy into it or define themselves by constantly neurotically rejecting it) that they become the exact caricature of feminists that misogynists claim that they are.
 
Gavin

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
Wow, I really sound like an asshole in this thread... But if the shoe fits...
 
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nomadologist

Guest
Yeah, this sounds a lot like where I grew up in rural upstate NY. The general tenor of homophobia--even as most boys either wrestled or played football in tightass spandex and spanked each other "high five"--was absurd.

When my boyfriend finally went to meet my parents he had to endure being called a "faggot" by kids on bicycles and such.

When we get stroll around Chelsea/the West Village, my boyfriend gets more catcalls than I do. I love that men are attracted to him as much as I am. I'd be down to watch him have sex with another hot guy.
 
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nomadologist

Guest
Gavin said:
It's funny how they are so much the flipside of the slutty "hot" girl syndrome of American chicks (both still totally reliant on status quo symbolic order, whether to buy into it or define themselves by constantly neurotically rejecting it) that they become the exact caricature of feminists that misogynists claim that they are.
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Agreed, this is why so many girls my age now say "I'm not a feminist, BUT..."
 
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nomadologist

Guest
Gavin said:
These dudes all want their high school football coach to fuck them in the ass I think.
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Did you ever hear John Waters' speak (or read his article) on the Jackass franchise? He praised it for being the queerest show on TV.
 
Gavin

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
nomadologist said:
Did you ever hear John Waters' speak (or read his article) on the Jackass franchise? He praised it for being the queerest show on TV.
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I think I read something about this (and he has a cameo in Jackass 2, a film which made me feel so many intense visceral reactions that I have to say it impressed me). Still, there's an element of disavowal in them: we'll never see Johnny Knoxville cornholing Steve-O, although that would really be the only way they could justify Jackass 3.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
nomadologist said:
i've read french women report being more orgasmic in general.
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i dated a chinese girl who used to climax from just having her nipples licked :)

i'm discovering, much to my dismay, that german chicks are about as spontaneous as my electricity bill :( and i thought LA was bad... taking a girl home that night, after meeting at a party, as much as she obviously likes you, seems far from the realm of the possible. :(:(
 
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nomadologist

Guest
That would be brilliant.

Speaking of NC-17 type films, one thing that bothers the hell out of me:

you can have full-frontal female nudity in an R film, but I don't get to see how big the dick is on Jude Law (or whoever, Tom Cruise? i hate em all)...
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
nomadologist said:
wow...did she tell you this, or did it just seem that way? cuz there's a difference.
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oh her entire body would start shaking and she would be in a (very loud) trance, digging nails into my arm almost drawing blood... and we lived together for 2 years so it wasn't just once.
 
Gavin

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
nomadologist said:
That would be brilliant.

Speaking of NC-17 type films, one thing that bothers the hell out of me:

you can have full-frontal female nudity in an R film, but I don't get to see how big the dick is on Jude Law (or whoever, Tom Cruise? i hate em all)...
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This is changing I think. Season 4 of the Wire had more (black) cocks than breasts. More and more women consume porn, and mainstream entertainment is basically porn now anyway.

I am really fascinated by porn actually, particularly its current ubiquity -- I wonder what someone 50 years ago would say if you told them "We gave up on moon colonies, but in the future every household has unlimited on-demand shemale scat bondage porn piped into their house 24/7 like it's WATER. Really don't know how you guys got on without it back in the day." Anyone got book recs? Dworkin's been on my list, but I'd like something more recent and not on the ban-or-not-ban tip.
 
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