A Novel Form Of Disgust

DannyL

Wild Horses
Vim: Sorry, no, I forgot he'd written King Rat. The two I really like are Perido Street Station and The Scar. I've got Iron Council but havn't read it yet. It's not meant to be as good as the other two.

I think he makes up for the "fantastic" element by making his novels really bloody nasty. They're quite "grimey" in a way - there's no winged elves but smelly, dirty, horrible, congested cities with people begging, having interspecies sex and doing drugs.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I assume there's no connection between this King Rat and Jame's Clavell's Japanese-POW-camp saga of the same name?
 

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
Pffft. :) Did you get a chance to chat to Louise last night? She's studying there at the moment and isn't really too impressed by the most of the people she's met there, I think.

Probably best not to get too impressed - would be a distraction from studying.

There's plenty of interesting ppl there - it's just a question of casting one's net far enough and ignoring the odd noxious clique. And as far as the P(ublic)S(chool)T(osser) problem goes, I can imagine many universities being far worse...
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich
"Yes, what I'm asking for are recommendations for this jaded reader. Come on...
(Tips: Burroughs, Ballard...Cormac McCarthy...Raymond Chandler...David Goodis...I like.
Anything about middle-aged men with record collection/child issues...dragons & Fantasy...marriage/love trouble novels...an epic portrayal of three generations of a family in China/India/Russia/Brick Lane...no)"
This is the guy I was incoherently trying to describe yesterday

"Julio Cortázar is highly regarded as a master of short story narrations.[citation needed] Collections like Bestiario (1951), Final del juego (1956) and Las armas secretas (1959) contain many of the best examples of surrealist writing in postmodern literature.[citation needed] Selections from those volumes were published in 1967 in English translations by Paul Blackburn under the title Blow-Up and Other Stories in deference to the English title of Michelangelo Antonioni's celebrated film noir of 1966 (Blowup) inspired by Julio Cortázar's story Las Babas del Diablo.
Cortázar also influenced Jean-Luc Godard to write Week End with La Autopista del Sur.[citation needed] One of his most notable short fictions is El Perseguidor (The Pursuer),[citation needed] based on the life of jazz musician Charlie Parker. He also published several novels, including Los Premios (The Winners - 1960), Hopscotch (Rayuela -1963), 62: A Model Kit (62 Modelo para Armar - 1968) and Libro de Manuel (A Manual for Manuel - 1973). They were later translated by Gregory Rabassa.
Julio Cortázar's masterpiece,[citation needed] Hopscotch, has been praised by other Latin American writers including José Lezama Lima, Carlos Fuentes, Gabriel García Márquez and Mario Vargas Llosa.[citation needed] The novel has an open-ended structure that invites the reader to choose between a linear and a non-linear mode of reading. Cortázar's employment of interior monologue and stream of consciousness is reminiscent of modernists like James Joyce, but his main influences were Surrealism, the French Nouveau roman and the improvisatory aesthetic of jazz."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julio_Cortázar
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
What is it about someone saying they hate fantasy and sci-fi that makes you want to suggest loads of fantasy and sci-fi? :D Anyway, Dune rocks bells and is easily one of my top 5 books ever. It's dark, epic (in a good way), complex, thought-provoking, more genuinely 'consciousness-expanding' than most self-consciously 'counter-culture' books and since it doesn't rely on the usual sci-fi tropes such as spaceships, robots and (sentient/talking/humanoid) aliens I think it'd be more acceptable to a reader who doesn't think of himself as a sci-fi fan. It's more about psychology, politics and religion than anything else.
 

ripley

Well-known member
You may absolutely loathe them if you are firmly against dragons and fantasy but I loved China Melville's first two novels. Smelly dystopia city, weird psed-science, torture, horrible monsters with a smattering of socialism. Great stuff.

QUOTE]


Was one of these King Rat (I'm pretty sure that's his first novel)? Really didn't enjoy it (though the descriptions of music were actually excellent) but thought it showed potential and always meant to check some of his other stuff (Perdido Street Station, UnLundun). He seems like an all-around good guy too.

King Rat was awful. But Perdido Street Station and the Iron Council are really really great. there's a part of Iron Council where I cheered as I read it. lots of horror influence, really visceral but out-there.

in a way maybe the opposite of what this thread was supposed to be about. But I do love those books.

What about Pat Barker's bleaker stuff? I like all of it (although the reading club was ambivalent about her "regeneration" series) and it doesn't remotely fit the disliked genres listed. Union Street and Blow Your House Down are unrelentingly bleak and harsh, but kind of amazing.

Or Sherman Alexie? He's a pretty interesting writer.

The Invisible Man? That's some of the toughest shit I know.
Other tough stuff - lots of people like William Vollman. I think he's got chops but something about it puts me off too...

There's a collection of short stories by John Sayles (the filmmaker) that is really good, called The Anarchist's Convention. Every one focuses on a different regional dialect/idiomatic style, like CB radio slang, aging jewish anarchists, boston working-class.. and many of them are also really funny.

Or there's always Lanark, by Alasdair Grey. Truly weird. No dragons though. My taste tends away from the minimal and more towards the maximal, I'm seeing. Pauline Melville, Haruki Murakami, Angela Carter.
 

slim jenkins

El Hombre Invisible
This is the guy I was incoherently trying to describe yesterday



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julio_Cortázar

Thanks Rich...that stuff sounds interesting.

Mr Tea - I didn't say I don't like sci-fi but named examples of it's usual elements that bore me, these days. I read loads of sci-fi years ago (including Dune) and actually love the idea of it still. I suppose I'm after those who have 'twisted' the genre or, perhaps, to use a vogueish term, are 'slipstreaming' (!) fiction. I think 'fantasy' has become synonymous with dragons and wizards but it can be anything that goes beyonds the bounds of 'real possibility', obviously. I guess it's the difference between capping that 'f' or not.

I know this is a tall order but thanks for all the suggestions...I mean, you don't know me, how old I am and what I've read so there's a lot of great literature that may be a possible 'solution'. I'm just a jaded bugger looking for something that will give me a buzz. And that's a subjective issue.
 

slim jenkins

El Hombre Invisible
What about Pat Barker's bleaker stuff? I like all of it (although the reading club was ambivalent about her "regeneration" series) and it doesn't remotely fit the disliked genres listed. Union Street and Blow Your House Down are unrelentingly bleak and harsh, but kind of amazing.

Or Sherman Alexie? He's a pretty interesting writer.

The Invisible Man? That's some of the toughest shit I know.
Other tough stuff - lots of people like William Vollman. I think he's got chops but something about it puts me off too...

There's a collection of short stories by John Sayles (the filmmaker) that is really good, called The Anarchist's Convention. Every one focuses on a different regional dialect/idiomatic style, like CB radio slang, aging jewish anarchists, boston working-class.. and many of them are also really funny.

Or there's always Lanark, by Alasdair Grey. Truly weird. No dragons though. My taste tends away from the minimal and more towards the maximal, I'm seeing. Pauline Melville, Haruki Murakami, Angela Carter.

Haven't tried Barker, although I know her rep, of course. Never heard of Alexie so I'll have a look. Don't know Vollman either. The Sayles films I've seen have been very good but I didn't know he wrote fiction so I'm interested in that. The Invisible Man is a modern classic...read it a long time ago and thought it brilliant. I've read Grey's Lanark - loved it. Murakami hasn't done much for me, but I seem to be alone in that respect.

I take it many of you have read 'Confederacy of Dunces'? If not, buy it. That is one of the great 20thc novels IMO.

Thanks.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I actually picked up some China Melville books in a shop once but the covers really put me off... perhaps that was a mistake. I keep meaning to read Lanark but it's quite expensive isn't it? That's a pathetic excuse I know, I'm sure I'll get fifteen pounds worth of pleasure from it if such a thing can be measured.
I know I'm in a small minority but I didn't really enjoy Confederacy of Dunces that much...
 

STN

sou'wester
I've got a copy of Lanark you can borrow Rich, if my mate Jess ever gives it back (she's well within her rights not to; I've got loads of her books). In my opinion '1982 Janine' is even better.

Couldn't get on with Cortazaar. Maybe I'm a mean-spirited, ungrateful little bastard but I thought the short stories were dull and the premise of Hopscotch considerably more exciting than the actual act of reading everything twice.

'Silence' by Shusaku Endo is a great 20th-century novel (not really a surprise to anyone, I'm sure).

I always think 'A Book of Common Prayer' by Joan Didion is an underrated novel. It reads like the end of an era. At present I can't remember which era, which is to the novel's credit.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I've got a copy of Lanark you can borrow Rich, if my mate Jess ever gives it back (she's well within her rights not to; I've got loads of her books). In my opinion '1982 Janine' is even better.

Couldn't get on with Cortazaar. Maybe I'm a mean-spirited, ungrateful little bastard but I thought the short stories were dull and the premise of Hopscotch considerably more exciting than the actual act of reading everything twice.
That would be wicked, cheers.
Not sure that I fully got on with Cortazar either to be honest. Some of the stories were great but some just seemed to stop and leave me feeling that I had missed the point. I think that it was worth wading through the less good stuff for the interesting stories though, I definitely fancy Hopscotch.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
I know I'm in a small minority but I didn't really enjoy Confederacy of Dunces that much...

Ditto. I mean I loved the characters and the setting and everything, but it was way too episodic and didn't really develop. 200 pages would've done me fine (in fact, I'm not sure I got past 250).
 

slim jenkins

El Hombre Invisible
I actually picked up some China Melville books in a shop once but the covers really put me off... perhaps that was a mistake. I keep meaning to read Lanark but it's quite expensive isn't it? That's a pathetic excuse I know, I'm sure I'll get fifteen pounds worth of pleasure from it if such a thing can be measured.
I know I'm in a small minority but I didn't really enjoy Confederacy of Dunces that much...


Fifteen quid?!!! I've often seen it s/h...you've got to look harder! ;) Re 'Dunces', just a subjective matter, this cultural lark, ain't it? There are standards, though...had debates over this many times (as I suspect a lot of us have). I don't 'get' Dubstep...but keep that to yourself...:D
 

CHAOTROPIC

on account
Graham Greene, "Brighton Rock"?
Murakami, "Hard Boiled Wonderland & the End of the World"?
Jeff Noon, "Vurt"?
 

slim jenkins

El Hombre Invisible
I've hated novels, especially new novels (yoghurt weaving bullshit), on-and-off for a few years now -- the dangers of studying literature...



No dragons, but it does have armoured bears.

If you like Pullman, you'll probably enjoy Neil Gaiman's books, particularly American Gods.



There's a story Ginsburg (I think) told of visiting Burroughs on his farm in Kansas, saying that Bill would spend days shooting up and doing nothing but reading the complete works of Shakespeare :cool:

Haven't tried Pullman, although a few people I know seem to rate him. I'm put off by the 'for teenagers and adults' line that always crops up. Still might have a look, though. Read Gaiman once and wasn't impressed but I haven't dismissed him completely. As for Bill's activities...I like the idea of just shooting and reading Shakespeare...wouldn't mind doing that myself but where I live I think it would attract the wrong kind of attention. Besides, one drunken night I might suggest to my woman that we try 'the William Tell routine'...:slanted:

There are subsequent dangers attached to studying literature...like the girl I once knew who, after university, tried to write but couldn't produce anything...'the anxiety of influence' or some such thing...the weight of what she knew crushed her creativity. Well, it hasn't stopped most of the nice middle-class boys that run literature in the UK today...
 

slim jenkins

El Hombre Invisible
Graham Greene, "Brighton Rock"?
Murakami, "Hard Boiled Wonderland & the End of the World"?
Jeff Noon, "Vurt"?

Yeah...love Greene...Murakami I tried but didn't think much of him...ditto Noon (didn't he write a novel involving someone in a band?) Memory may be false. There was some 'cyberpunk' stuff I looked into a few years back but could never get over the idea that the characters came across as spikey-haired American New Wave types that would think Camden Market cool. No-one's bettered Gibson at that game as far as I know.
 

m33k +i93r

TheUnridiculousBearMix
have been meaning to read 'brighton rock' with best intentions for about 6 years. the worst thing is its not very long and doesnt portend to being a 'difficult' read at all, and i own it, but i just never got round to it. greene's plays 'the living room' and 'the potting shed', as two opposing sides of the same coin, are brilliant but its all i've read of his.

'hard boiled wonderland...' is one of my favourite novels, not in terms of awe-inspiring aesthetic rapture like 'gravity's rainbow' but more because its like a sci-fi conspiracy novel that still manages to be fuzzy, warm, chuckleworthy and tender. also the protagonist is like a total joe bloggs with a bizarre alter ego :) :). one of the very few novels i have read which have brought me close to tears.

the book that noon wrote about a band is called 'needle in the groove' and i was really impressed with it when reading it at 16. can't get it from the library to re-read it as its out of print, but i read some of his other stuff and thought it was absolute tosh to be honest, esp. 'pixel juice'. eurgh.

anyone read 'house of leaves' by mark danielewski? i've had it on my shelf for ages, and have read the intro (the bit about zampano etc) but i have a kind of neurosis about it, like because of the way its presented its going to really alter the state of my subconscious by reading it. which makes it ultimately enticing but also massively daunting.

cortazar i'd also like to read - any suggestions those who have read 'hopscotch' as to why it doesn't live up to expectations?

as for a recommendation, i'm presuming you've read most of pynchon (who i unreservedly adore) so instead i'll suggest john barth's 'the sot-weed factor'? hilarious, bawdy, and twists all kind of historical facts around the narrative. that's if you can be bothered with 800 pages of ye olde english 'of't's, 'on't's and 'prithee's.

also worthy of note for its incredible density contained within 200 pages - ishmael reed's 'mumbo jumbo'.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
There is a thread around here about House of Leaves - but in summary, I wouldn't worry too much about it getting into your subconscious or genuinely affecting your life - that's just to entice you in. I think it is very good though and quite scary at times although (in my opinion) it runs out of steam slightly (and inevitably?) by the end.

http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=6829&highlight=house+leaves

Similarly, give Brighton Rock a go, for my money not the best of his novels but it won't take you long to read and it will definitely be worth the effort.
The only Barth one I've read is Giles Goat-Boy which started great but by the end was making me unbelievably frustrated. I know Sot-Weed is his most highly rated but if it's anything like G G-B I don't think I can face it.
I reckon that Hardboiled Wonderland is possibly my favourite Murakami novel. Certainly one where he manages to keep the plot together rather than just disappear into increasing weirdness which tends to give the impression he doesn't know how to finish it.
 

booky

Member
I couldn't finish "House of Leaves"--though I've been told that I should.

I did adore "London Fields" -- this is ABSOLUTELY NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH LIKING AMIS. The book is wonderful, the man's a twat. There's no Brick Lane, but it's of course London-ified.

I just started M.T. Anderson's "Octavian Nothing: Traitor to the Nation...(I can't remember the rest of the absurdly long title)" and it's quite astounding. It's meant for 'young adults', but man, it's wicked.
 
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