Apparently Barack "isn't black"

john eden

male pale and stale
I've seen a few people on other boards raise this issue post-election and thought it might be good to have a discussion here (where people are more sensible) about whiteness/blackness.

For me it seems pretty obvious that both categories are social constructions. And that most Americans would identify Barack Obama as being black. So for all intents and purposes he is.

It seems to me that there are some (white?) people who are suggesting that, because of Barack's parentage he is somehow "in between" white and black or possibly "not black enough". Which reminds me of the BNP always describing Lee Jasper as being "half black" - which is just bizarre.

Maybe there is scope here for people's thoughts about "shadism", or "whiteness" or whatever.

I must say I've not really read around the subject all that much, so any pointers would be welcome.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
It seems to me that there are some (white?) people who are suggesting that, because of Barack's parentage he is somehow "in between" white and black or possibly "not black enough".


"not black enough" in a bad way? Jesse jackson said that too, though i think he meant it symbolically - ie not focussed enough on 'black issues'.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
He's got one white parent and one black parent. That's all there is to it. It makes him whiter than most Kenyans and blacker than most Americans (and, crucially, blacker then the vast majority of the American political establishment). So it's in this latter sense that he's 'black', because he's black compared to GWB, McCain, Palin (and Clinton, Gore, Kerry) etc. etc. etc.

Edit: OK, obviously that's not 'all there is to it' since there's a whole complicated web of race issues surrounding it, to do with how people see themselves and are seen by others. But just to describe him as 'black' because he had a black dad seems not quite right, as it seems to imply that his mother's heritage counts for nothing - and it was she who raised him, after all.
 
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D

droid

Guest
RE: Shadism - seems mainly to be a 'black' thing - Jamaicans avoiding too much sun because it will make them 'blacker' and the general fetishising of lighter skin - bleaching etc...

Obviously this is the result of centuries of colonial 'divide and rule' practices, with variations on the theme all over the world (the protestant ascendancy here for example), but I would have thought it was rare (or at least rarely vocalised) amongst whites.
 

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
"not black enough" in a bad way? Jesse jackson said that too, though i think he meant it symbolically - ie not focussed enough on 'black issues'.
Yeah. The distinction drawn is that he doesn't have a family history of slavery or a personal history within US racial struggles.

These make him simultaneously less attractive to many black voters, and a bit more attractive to white voters. That's why Jackson was insulting him a few months ago.

Cf what Gary Younge wrote about him a couple of weeks ago, about not really believing in him in terms of being a "black" candidate, though I think he came round to him a bit more on the basis of just being a pretty darn good candidate on his own terms.

Tea - his (white) mother didn't raise him to any significant degree - his (white) grandmother did. The mythical power of his losing his maternal figure right on the cusp of his greatest achivement is extraordinary.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
well in America's racist past (and present) a "half and half" person is categorized (and treated) as black.
so i don't think there is any reason for the definitions to be changed now.
 

mms

sometimes
i've mostly heard black people describe him as mixed race in a positive way.
He identifies himself as black.
I think there are lots of issues, there was the one drop rule which mean't you were black if anyone in your recent ancestory was black, also mixed race wasn't even on the consensus until very recent history, 2000 i think
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
i've mostly heard black people describe him as mixed race in a positive way.
He identifies himself as black.
I think there are lots of issues, there was the one drop rule which mean't you were black if anyone in your recent ancestory was black, also mixed race wasn't even on the consensus until very recent history, 2000 i think

I don't think Barack being less than 100% black in terms of heritage cost him any black votes. He has a great reputation in terms of civil rights advocacy having spent several years as a community organizer on the southside of Chicago.

Mixed-race or multi-racial is the preferred nomenclature at this point. I don't think anyone has any problem seeing someone as multi-racial nowadays, rather than just black.

90% of the people in my neighborhood are mixed black and puerto rican or dominican. They don't seem to think they're less black or less PR/DR because of this. They're just mixed. No one else sees them as 100% anything. Mixed-race black hispanicos are so prevalant in NYC that most people don't assume a black person is an English speaker anymore.

Barack being mixed is a great asset in a country where whites will be the minority by 2050.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
I've seen a few people on other boards

Jesus, Eden, you read other boards? I hardly have enough time for this one.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Interesting though -- is it possible to be any more establishment than President of the United States of America?

Nope. And that's what black people have been dying and fighting for since they were emancipated--i.e. equal access to our institutions.

Also, it's worth noting that very very few blacks in the U.S. are 100% black, given the common practice of slave owners using female slaves for double duty as sex slaves.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Yup. Some people are of mixed ethnicity.

But we're all mixed ethnicity. That's what the U.S. is.

Indeed - and the UK.

I think "mixed race" is clearly a better term than "half caste" or "mongrel" and the other horrid stuff which preceded it in common parlance as it is less loaded. But "mixed ethnicity" is a bit of mouthful.

Craner - I skip a lot on here ;)
 

john eden

male pale and stale
RE: Shadism - seems mainly to be a 'black' thing - Jamaicans avoiding too much sun because it will make them 'blacker' and the general fetishising of lighter skin - bleaching etc...

Obviously this is the result of centuries of colonial 'divide and rule' practices, with variations on the theme all over the world (the protestant ascendancy here for example), but I would have thought it was rare (or at least rarely vocalised) amongst whites.

I think it is definitely more vocalised amongst black people but there is clearly a big issue for a lot of white people as well - white racist propaganda (e.g. cartoons) portrays black people as ultra-black for example, in the same way that racist caricatures of jews are really hook-nosed etc.

But also if you look at the portrayal of women in the media there is definitely an issue around lightness of skin and beauty, I think? In european countries but also something I noticed in Brazil.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Gosh, really?


I'm:

Italian
Danish
German
Jewish
"Gypsy" whatever that means
Scottish

Most people here, the vast majority, other than first generation immigrants, have a mixture of a number of ethnic groups in their heritage.

Forgot one--French Canadian.

I mostly identify with Italian-Americans culturally because I was mostly raised by them.
 

mms

sometimes
Also, it's worth noting that very very few blacks in the U.S. are 100% black, given the common practice of slave owners using female slaves for double duty as sex slaves.

yeah which explains stuff like the one drop rule.

yeah he's not any less black, you're right i wasn't trying to argue anything like that, but it wasn't until the 2000 censuss that american people could identify their background as coming from more than one place


'There remain many circumstances in which biracial individuals are left with no real response when asked for demographic data. But multiracial people won a victory of sorts after years of effort when in 1997, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) changed the federal regulation of racial categories to permit multiple responses, resulting in a new format for the 2000 United States Census, which allowed participants to select more than one of the six available categories, which were, in brief: "White," "Black or African American," "Asian," "American Indian or Alaskan Native," "Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander," and "Other." Further details are given in the article: Race (U.S. census). The OMB made its directive mandatory for all government forms by 2003.'
 
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