Magick!

Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
nochexxx said:
i don't know anything about magic but anything that inverts science seems healthy to me.
Click to expand...

How do you 'invert' science, exactly?

I see magic as proto-science: you do something -> something you don't quite understand happens -> some end result occurs. Chemistry and astronomy were ultimately born of alchemy and astrology, after all, and the study of anatomy may even begun with haruspicy.
 
nochexxx

nochexxx

harco pronting
Mr. Tea said:
How do you 'invert' science, exactly?

I see magic as proto-science: you do something -> something you don't quite understand happens -> some end result occurs. Chemistry and astronomy were ultimately born of alchemy and astrology, after all, and the study of anatomy may even begun with haruspicy.
Click to expand...


correct me if im wrong but the little information i've discerned from reading about sigil magick is that it works only once the laws of what the status quo considers natural conduct is bypassed. sigils work outside of ‘science’, or at least the dogmatic version we are led to believe.

Depending on your vantage point we’ve encountered the inevitable, a schism between the arts and science.
 
M

massrock

Well-known member
nochexxx said:
correct me if im wrong but the little information i've discerned from reading about sigil magick is that it works only once the laws of what the status quo considers natural conduct is bypassed. sigils work outside of ‘science’, or at least the dogmatic version we are led to believe.
Click to expand...
Nah, not really. Generally magick isn't too concerned with how it works I would say. You can have your theories and things but it doesn't really matter. Some theories even purport to be scientific ;)

The idea with things like sigil magick is that you need to get your usual 'desire' and 'doubt' and rationalisations (how does it work?) and equivocations out of the way for the act of magick to be effective in the way you want it to be. So sigil magick is one way of doing that in that you are trying to hide the meaning of the sigil from your conscious mind.
 
M

Martin Dust

Techno Zen Master
I still use sigils and enjoy working in a neither- neither state but so much rubbish has been written about magick and always will be, it's hard to find your way. You could make a leaflet out of the good stuff that's for sure.

I'm also a fan a belief systems, in the past I've worshiped a gnome and played dice man with one of those magic fishes you get in xmas crackers - the biggest lesson out of all that was you can build a belief system out of anything if you try hard enough.
 
M

massrock

Well-known member
BBS Moderation through cursing!
Click to expand...
I think it's probably best to nip that kind of thing in the bud, seemed fair enough to me. You don't want a fairly open web2.0 site dealing with 'occult' topics being overrun with too much disruptive mentalism. Generally I like the approach those guys seem to have.
 
D

DannyL

Wild Horses
Martin Dust said:
I still use sigils and enjoy working in a neither- neither state but so much rubbish has been written about magick and always will be, it's hard to find your way. You could make a leaflet out of the good stuff that's for sure.

I'm also a fan a belief systems, in the past I've worshiped a gnome and played dice man with one of those magic fishes you get in xmas crackers - the biggest lesson out of all that was you can build a belief system out of anything if you try hard enough.
Click to expand...

I tend to read academic books now. Less egotism and madness, from people who know how to write and structure an argument.

One recent book I did like though - Barry Patterson's The Art of Conversation with the Genius Loci. Great little book.
 
M

Martin Dust

Techno Zen Master
DannyL said:
I tend to read academic books now. Less egotism and madness, from people who know how to write and structure an argument.

One recent book I did like though - Barry Patterson's The Art of Conversation with the Genius Loci. Great little book.
Click to expand...

I don't think I've picked up a book on magick in years, Ken is more a fan but I got sick of reading the same thing over and over in a more "new age" cover every single time.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
nochexxx said:
correct me if im wrong but the little information i've discerned from reading about sigil magick is that it works only once the laws of what the status quo considers natural conduct is bypassed.
Click to expand...

I couldn't possibly correct you because I have no idea what sigil magick is. But it sounds like a fairly standard po-mo rejection of anything approved of by The Man/The System/The Establishment.
 
D

DannyL

Wild Horses
Martin Dust said:
I don't think I've picked up a book on magick in years, Ken is more a fan but I got sick of reading the same thing over and over in a more "new age" cover every single time.
Click to expand...

I very rarely buy books on the occult. I did buy Dave Lee's new one earlier this year which I liked about 90% of. Pretty original in most parts. Most of the time though, I'd rather read something academic if I'm going to read at all.
 
M

Martin Dust

Techno Zen Master
DannyL said:
I very rarely buy books on the occult. I did buy Dave Lee's new one earlier this year which I liked about 90% of. Pretty original in most parts. Most of the time though, I'd rather read something academic if I'm going to read at all.
Click to expand...

Didn't even know Dave had a new book out, I've got a lot of time for Dave, although I guess he's still doing the I.O.T thing, not for me really.
 
woops

woops

is not like other people
massrock said:
I think it's probably best to nip that kind of thing in the bud, seemed fair enough to me. You don't want a fairly open web2.0 site dealing with 'occult' topics being overrun with too much disruptive mentalism. Generally I like the approach those guys seem to have.
Click to expand...

I didn't exactly lol when I clicked the link to the Grant Morrsion video earlier in this thread, and the first comment on the video was 'I've met Grant astrally and merked him'.
 
M

Martin Dust

Techno Zen Master
mistersloane said:
What's wrong with the I.O.T* thing Martin?

* Illuminates of Thanateros
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminates_of_Thanateros
Click to expand...

I've never really been into traditional magickal orders, the IOT had a chance to be different but as soon as Peter Carroll took over he aligned it with the OTO and for me it was over the day he did that. I also had a problem with some of the right wing BS going on in the IOT as well.

I guess it suits some people and I've be invited to join many an order, but I really never wanted to join anything. TOPY was more free form, into ideas and being creative, so I went with that but as soon as that became just the same people doing the work we closed it down.
 
D

DannyL

Wild Horses
I benefited from joining a group to learn stuff and make connections with new people who I wouldn't otherwise meet. I benefited from this hugely and still do in fact The whole pseudo-masonic organisation and idea of grades of attainment are a massive turn off for me (this is why I don't like Alan Chapman's stuff - mentioned above). It strikes me as being one of those ideas that seems to have passed down from the 19th Century without any intervening thought, to coin a phrase.

I think the best groups are ones that arise out of friendships, and exist on an informal basis. Then there's no big instituion to defend or "protect". Hard to have outside a big city though.
 
M

Martin Dust

Techno Zen Master
DannyL said:
I think the best groups are ones that arise out of friendships, and exist on an informal basis. Then there's no big instituion to defend or "protect". Hard to have outside a big city though.
Click to expand...

True enough Danny, just about everyone who was active at the end of TOPY are still in touch :)
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
does anyone have anything to say about the tarot? i ask because its something a lot of poets have been interested in, olson for example was very keen on the tarot, and a have a set of cards but i never look at them because i don't have any way to make them meaningful. i dont have any interest in divination. i couldn't care less.
 
L

low band

Well-known member
luka said:
does anyone have anything to say about the tarot? i ask because its something a lot of poets have been interested in, olson for example was very keen on the tarot, and a have a set of cards but i never look at them because i don't have any way to make them meaningful. i dont have any interest in divination. i couldn't care less.
Click to expand...

Alejandro Jodorowsky is worth checking out for Tarot stuff, there is a documentary that he made (or was made about him) that features his take and use of the cards. The deck he helped re-print (a version of the Tarot of Marseilles) is one of my favorites.

The Book of Thoth by Crowley is also worth picking up.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
i have the book of thoth. i havent' read it yet.
but if you have a favourite set of cards then presumably you have something to say personally
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top