Vegetarianism
- Thread starter bun-u
- Start date
Well, some people are vegetarians because of religious reasons, or because they don't want to up their chances of falling prey to e-coli or colonic cancer or CJD - they don't particularly care about 'animal welfare' nor do it solely out of empathy. But I think this whole concept of veggies and vegans screaming 'Murderers!' at us bacon fans is a bit of a cliche' - I've only come across one person like that, and she occasionally ate fish anyway, the hypocrite.
If you're talking hardcore ALF types, well, good luck, that's another planet altogether
If you're talking hardcore ALF types, well, good luck, that's another planet altogether
infinite thought
pigferatu
I hate animals, they're disgusting...wouldn't want them anywhere near me...
this is the only good reason for being vegetarian
this is the only good reason for being vegetarian
O
Omaar
Guest
This discussion should definitely incorporate the expression 'subconscious abbatoir' at some point - ted hughes?
I'm vegetarian cos I wouldn't kill an animal myself, and thus wouldn't expect someone else to kill one for me in order that I might eat it.
There are environmental reasons too (animal vs vegetable protein production), although soy production is destroying the amazon at the moment apparently.
I'm vegetarian cos I wouldn't kill an animal myself, and thus wouldn't expect someone else to kill one for me in order that I might eat it.
There are environmental reasons too (animal vs vegetable protein production), although soy production is destroying the amazon at the moment apparently.
^ A friend of a friend used to keep both regular and soy milk in the house. She would offer guests the choice of "cow pus" (apparently some statistic about sores on udders in mass-milk production leading to % of pus in milk) or "monoculture environmental destruction"....
If someone doens't eat meat because of the ways of agriculture, I fully understand.
I try to get in animal protein with every meal, but boy is there a difference between the cheapest stuff and free-range meat. It's all about what your putting through your body, and meat from mass-production isn't even a natural substance anymore.
However, if someone doesn't eat meat because it's cruel.....well, i think thats a bit fuzzy and let's have peace for everyone, happy, happy, haaaaaaappy
Ono last thing: if you get your cologn cleansed, the largest part of what comes loose is old meat -- meaning that you probably still have a bit of those spare-ribs you got for your 11th birthday dinner...... which would mean it's (your age minus 11) years old
I try to get in animal protein with every meal, but boy is there a difference between the cheapest stuff and free-range meat. It's all about what your putting through your body, and meat from mass-production isn't even a natural substance anymore.
However, if someone doesn't eat meat because it's cruel.....well, i think thats a bit fuzzy and let's have peace for everyone, happy, happy, haaaaaaappy
Ono last thing: if you get your cologn cleansed, the largest part of what comes loose is old meat -- meaning that you probably still have a bit of those spare-ribs you got for your 11th birthday dinner...... which would mean it's (your age minus 11) years old
bassnation
the abyss
martin said:
there are lots of veggies and vegans who care about animal welfare, or empathise with chimps having their brains operated on without anaesthetic.
are we really so post-modern that the only valid reason for caring are selfish ones? (e.g. how does this food affect *me*?)
and its possible to care without being self-righteous or jumping down peoples throats. i was a veggie for a long time, and to be perfectly honest it was more the other way round - meat eaters shoving a bacon sarnie in your face, saying "go on, you want some really" when you might not have even expressed an opinion.
its an individual choice and people do it for many reasons, all of them valid. we can survive without meat and some people don't want it on their conscience. however, theres just as many reasons to carry on eating it - maybe we should have mutual respect for each others opinions.
O
Omaar
Guest
Personally I've never liked cow milk, and am fairly ambivalent about soy although I did have some pretty fantastic freshly grinded soy milk in China recently.
It's not at all 'fuzzy' (jezmi) to say that farming practices often involve cruelty being inflicted on animals; Battery farming of pigs, chickens, other species is pretty abominable by any standard really.
It's not at all 'fuzzy' (jezmi) to say that farming practices often involve cruelty being inflicted on animals; Battery farming of pigs, chickens, other species is pretty abominable by any standard really.
Originally Posted by bassnation
are we really so post-modern that the only valid reason for caring are selfish ones? (e.g. how does this food affect *me*?)
Isn't caring solely for onself the way used by most species of making sure the species survives, and therefor part of evolution?
And if that is the case wouldn't claiming that reason to be post-modern, be post-modern in itself? (thoughts are getting a tangled now)
are we really so post-modern that the only valid reason for caring are selfish ones? (e.g. how does this food affect *me*?)
martin said:
Isn't caring solely for onself the way used by most species of making sure the species survives, and therefor part of evolution?
And if that is the case wouldn't claiming that reason to be post-modern, be post-modern in itself?
(thoughts are getting a tangled now)bassnation
the abyss
labrat said:
well, to be fair its best not to get too upset about these things anyway - ultimately they don't mean that much.
bassnation
the abyss
Jezmi said:Isn't caring solely for onself the way used by most species of making sure the species survives, and therefor part of evolution? And if that is the case wouldn't claiming that reason to be post-modern, be post-modern in itself?
lol, me too!
theres been a lot of research into altruism, previously a bit of a mystery to scientists who didn't understand how "unselfish" acts could benefit an individual.
you are correct in saying that even though a specific selfless act does not help the individual concerned, over an entire species or community it balances out. so i guess you are right.
this research overturned social darwinism (using "survival of the fittest" to justify right wing ideologies about the poor deserving their lot) by proving that it doesn't really have roots in scientific fact.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/altruism-biological/
bassnation
the abyss
martin said:
fair enough. whether the empathy is misplaced is a relative judgement, and one i don't really agree with. not wanting uncessary suffering to be carried out in your name doesn't necessarily mean you become a misanthrope (although i reckon this applies to a large section of the more nutty ALF types)
infinite thought
pigferatu
bassnation said:well, to be fair its best not to get too upset about these things anyway - ultimately they don't mean that much.
they might if it turns out hell is run by animals! then everyone who's ever eaten so much as a cocktail sausage will be forced to count grain for all eternity. or something.
I'm interested in apocalyptic vegetarianism. I genuinely suspect that if all animals got it together they could easily take us puny humans down - it might be better to hedge one's bets and not eat meat for this reason alone.
bassnation
the abyss
infinite thought said:
i read a dreadful pulp horror novel the other week which was a reinterpretation of george romeros zombie films. in this version the animals could be zombies too - cue loads of hitchcock-style attacks from huge clouds of zombie birds trying to claw peoples eyes out. if there is an animal hell, i reckon it will be like that - even though i've never eaten a sparrow in my whole life.
I find the different attitudes people towards animals quite fascinating – and this is why (while accepting that abstinence from meat can be done on health and religious grounds) I am interested in this notion of empathy. Why some people think that animals should have virtually the same “rights” as people? Why some people think that certain types of animals should have more rights that others? If the animals are not aware we are giving them rights, then surely these are ‘human rights’ for people who like (or can’t abide the mis-treatment of) animals? If most if not all human rights/ moral codes are based on some form of discernable payback or benefit to us as a species, then what are we getting back from helping animals? In banning fox-hunting are we saving defenceless foxes or outlawing the perverse enjoyment some individuals get out of it?
I have a (possibly strange) emotionless response to animals and I’m trying to figure that out in relation to other people responses.
I have a (possibly strange) emotionless response to animals and I’m trying to figure that out in relation to other people responses.