pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
is there any reason why you don't use the piano roll for drums?
DAW questions thread
- Thread starter baboon2004
- Start date
is there any reason why you don't use the piano roll for drums?
Chef Napalm
Lost in the Supermarket
Most of the guys I know who started with Cubase have switched to Logic.
I'm also running LE and, as you say, it is very easy on the system. What I like about it is that it's so stripped down that you're forced to really understand what you're trying to do so you can figure out a work-around. Necessity is the mother of invention, after all.I still use Cubase LE for recording sometimes.
I'll tell you what though, considering it was free and it came out in 2004 it does a heck of a lot, and it's really easy on resources - modern PCs hardly notice it's there at all. My main music PC isn't all that modern...
Cubase 5 is meant be very good. For ages I've been wanting an excuse to buy something that comes with a free Cubase LE4.
The only thing I don't like about it is that the time-stretching is total shit. You can only compress/stretch maybe 2 or 3 bpm (0.5s on a 4-bar loop) before you can hear the aliasing.
I considered upgrading to Cubase 5, but it would mean rebuilding my PC.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
nice one for hipping me to these. they're really amazing quality
I swear I wrote a post here the other day, not sure what happened...
Anyway, was saying I use AudioMulch as my "DAW" and that it operates very differently from a sequencer (it has no MIDI sequencing or waveform view, for example) but has some cool things about it. That's all.
Oh, and I suggested you could download basic64 if you wanted a free make-me-sound-like-Rustie VST synth. (Windows only)
http://www.delamancha.co.uk/basic.htm
Anyway, was saying I use AudioMulch as my "DAW" and that it operates very differently from a sequencer (it has no MIDI sequencing or waveform view, for example) but has some cool things about it. That's all.
Oh, and I suggested you could download basic64 if you wanted a free make-me-sound-like-Rustie VST synth. (Windows only)
http://www.delamancha.co.uk/basic.htm
No, I usually work the whole thing through to pre-master stage in Mulch.
I usually start by building up a lot of looping elements - which is what I was doing with MIDI sequencer + sampler / synths. Sometimes this involves a clear A/B section - e.g. two basslines, sets of chords, etc. in which case I usually put each section in its own mixer so I can mute one or the other with a single click.
Before attempting to structure out a track I sometimes export loops I've made so I can basically work with my own riffs as if they're samples. Play them back at different octaves / half-speed / double-speed / etc. I'm quite into sequencing bits in reverse, exporting them and then reversing the loop.
Then I use a lot of automation to mute/unmute/fade/filter in/filter out elements. I'm paranoid about just having a bunch of loops coming in and out, though, so usually part of this automation will involve working with making variations as the track's structure comes together. I re-work bits, add variations / fills, throw in little one-off events. Lots of messing with little sample-and-hold VSTs, adding harmonies via granulators, shifting stuff to be in new phase relationships with the beat. Again, that requires more automation to drop things in and out or switch presets.
I don't have any kind of MIDI controller, so my approach to automation is largely programmed, although I do sometimes record parameter tweaking I do with the mouse.
I met Mulch's creator while living in Melbourne, Australia and he basically told me he thought I liked to do stuff the hard way. Haha. he basically couldn't figure out why I'd ended up using his product for sorta trad beat-based stuff... Ah well.
I usually start by building up a lot of looping elements - which is what I was doing with MIDI sequencer + sampler / synths. Sometimes this involves a clear A/B section - e.g. two basslines, sets of chords, etc. in which case I usually put each section in its own mixer so I can mute one or the other with a single click.
Before attempting to structure out a track I sometimes export loops I've made so I can basically work with my own riffs as if they're samples. Play them back at different octaves / half-speed / double-speed / etc. I'm quite into sequencing bits in reverse, exporting them and then reversing the loop.
Then I use a lot of automation to mute/unmute/fade/filter in/filter out elements. I'm paranoid about just having a bunch of loops coming in and out, though, so usually part of this automation will involve working with making variations as the track's structure comes together. I re-work bits, add variations / fills, throw in little one-off events. Lots of messing with little sample-and-hold VSTs, adding harmonies via granulators, shifting stuff to be in new phase relationships with the beat. Again, that requires more automation to drop things in and out or switch presets.
I don't have any kind of MIDI controller, so my approach to automation is largely programmed, although I do sometimes record parameter tweaking I do with the mouse.
I met Mulch's creator while living in Melbourne, Australia and he basically told me he thought I liked to do stuff the hard way.
Haha. he basically couldn't figure out why I'd ended up using his product for sorta trad beat-based stuff... Ah well.
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yeah on the surface that does seem to be an inefficent way of working, but in practice i'm sure you've probably got it flowing well for you.
i'm sure theres huge differences in how people work with the sam DAW and stuff aswell. theres always something new to figure out or lots of features that i don't know about cause i dont work that way.
michael: do you think that making music that way impacts or colours your output and the choices you make musically at all? what sort of music is it?
i'm sure theres huge differences in how people work with the sam DAW and stuff aswell. theres always something new to figure out or lots of features that i don't know about cause i dont work that way.
michael: do you think that making music that way impacts or colours your output and the choices you make musically at all? what sort of music is it?
Grievous Angel
Beast of Burden
i switched
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
i also switched from cubase to logic but as i'm on pc i eventually went the way of ableton.
I guess so, at least to a certain extent. It took me a while to get my head around how to efficiently sequence changes to riffs and so on, so I certainly did much less of that and more treating my own riffs like other people's samples - editing / reversing / transposing etc. - to create variations.
But, that said, the overall workflow is not actually that far from what I used to do with sequencer + sampler - build up loops, structure them out, do more work to keep it interesting (or whatever suggested itself based on what I'd done so far). Even the re-sampling stuff is something I used to do with hardware - write a melody on a synth and sample it as a complete phrase, then use the sampler to chop it up (The ol' velocity > sample point trick - man I was gutted when Prefuse 73 came along
transpose or filter it.The music I do solo is inoffensive
downtempo "electronica" stuff. I get compared to Boards of Canada, but was never actually very interested in them. Anyway. Here's some free stuff if you want to contrast the working methods, etc. - http://www.nonwrestler.com/downloads.html The first 4 Jet Jag tunes are Mulch, first 2 remixes, plus the Montano tracks. The rest is basically an ancient sequencing app (pre-DAW, really) called Master Tracks Pro, used to control an Emu ESI-32 sampler.
Chef Napalm
Lost in the Supermarket
See what I mean?
As and aside, were either of you fellas working with Version 3+? I've been trying to track down that strings VST, Embracer.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
yeah 3.7 was the last version i used... dunno where you could find embracer tho
Chef Napalm
Lost in the Supermarket
It comes with Cubase SX3, 4 and now 5, but only with the full versions.
No one ever posts the embracer vst because it's bundled with the software for free.
No one ever posts the embracer vst because it's bundled with the software for free.
great thread this, interesting to snoop around the world of freeware vsts a bit. as a longtime logic/mac user most of this is pretty alien to me. i sent my friend the tweakbench link and he was seriously loving it, props for that one. in my own stuff i almost always use external sound sources and fx so i've never bothered with much software, but i'm going to be moving about for a couple of months and i'm trying to set up my laptop with a couple of interesting toolz.. i've scoured the links in the thread already and haven't found much, so if anyone can link me to some reliableish free OSX-compatible Audio Unit softsynths/plugins i'd be really grateful... i've already got the TAL fx which are pretty cool, and i grabbed the Rough Rider compressor and Camel Crusher distortion, both look useful.. really, i'm after a simple, nice-sounding monosynth..
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
(note to those who've not read the whole thread: we were talking about Ableton and its lack of a step sequencer)
never got round to answering, sorry. i have since tried using the piano roll in ableton to input drums. i'm slowly getting used to it, and it's not as bad as i thought. I think i preferred step sequencers (eg Redrum) previously asthey appealed to my notion of 'mathematically mapping a beat out', as opposed to hearing it as i built it up.
Tweak Head
Well-known member
Anybody tried Propellerhead's new Record? Seems likea good way of expanding Reason and apparently allows a better sound. Any thoughts?
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
right, first time i ever used any sequencing software it was cubase with it's piano roll/drum roll and that's been the only way for me ever since. never really got why people liked step sequencers. but then i guess it really depends what kind of drums you want to program. when i first started out i was more trying to make things that were more detailed/realistic. these days not so much 'cos i make a lot of 4/4 & 2step type beats. actually for programming drums fxpansion's guru (sorry to mention it in yet another thread) is a really nice medium between the piano roll and step sequencer. anyway, i really just wanted to say that if you have to set up a rewire just to program drums it might be worth spending a bit more time with the piano roll. but that's just me, lately i'm all about having less and less shit to mess with/think about.
but yeah, whatever's clever