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Leo
16-01-2011, 03:25 AM
http://marathonpacks.tumblr.com/post/2728942718/data

not sure this deserves its own thread but didn't know where else to put it.

those of you in the industry probably won't be surprised, but i was kinda shocked at how little some of these hyped albums actually sold. and some unexpected findings: sleigh bells at 95K units, yet flylo and caribou at only 33K, and robyn "body talk" with just 23K sold. are soundscan figures for US sales only?

baboon2004
16-01-2011, 07:47 AM
Yeah, it's properly interesting. The US sales thing might explain it for me though, as I can't believe those are the overall figures for the Robyn album.

Yep, for the eponymous album:Sweden 65,000+
United Kingdom 242,000
United States 33,000

Make smore sense now. But still puts into place how niche artists I think of as well-known, really are, for example LCD.

mms
16-01-2011, 10:39 AM
http://marathonpacks.tumblr.com/post/2728942718/data

not sure this deserves its own thread but didn't know where else to put it.

those of you in the industry probably won't be surprised, but i was kinda shocked at how little some of these hyped albums actually sold. and some unexpected findings: sleigh bells at 95K units, yet flylo and caribou at only 33K, and robyn "body talk" with just 23K sold. are soundscan figures for US sales only?

soundscan is US only yes, but its the biggest territory potentially, also not sure whether all shops are soundscan too, much like alot of indie shops in the uk don't report chart figs.

crackerjack
16-01-2011, 10:44 AM
Yep,Soundscan is US only. There was a very rubbish piece in the Indie a couple of weeks back quoting UK sales figures of this year's critical darlings. Caribou was 20k UK alone, which is pretty healthy for a record like that. Trouble is a huge chunk of these sales now come from places that squeeze margins to the bone – places like Amazon, Fopp (where you can currently get Janelle Monae's for a fiver) supermarkets, if you're sufficiently popular.

mms
16-01-2011, 11:08 AM
Yep,Soundscan is US only. There was a very rubbish piece in the Indie a couple of weeks back quoting UK sales figures of this year's critical darlings. Caribou was 20k UK alone, which is pretty healthy for a record like that. Trouble is a huge chunk of these sales now come from places that squeeze margins to the bone – places like Amazon, Fopp (where you can currently get Janelle Monae's for a fiver) supermarkets, if you're sufficiently popular.

Yes thats true, it's not a good thing that hmv is doing badly, esp if you consider the companies online like amazon etc, who don't pay any vat cos they work offshore, and have terrible employment practices, they've no interest in music perse just unit costs.

Elijah
16-01-2011, 12:03 PM
Would the failure of HMV invigorate independents?

I went into Oxford Street HMV during the week with Terror Danjah and it was like a graveyard for CDs. They had albums released within the last 6 months for £6 stacked to the brim. Then you had recent independent albums in there for £14?!

Was weird

crackerjack
16-01-2011, 12:52 PM
Would the failure of HMV invigorate independents?

I went into Oxford Street HMV during the week with Terror Danjah and it was like a graveyard for CDs. They had albums released within the last 6 months for £6 stacked to the brim. Then you had recent independent albums in there for £14?!

Was weird

It would help indie shops, but not labels. Obviously that situation you describe is a nightmare, but you can't stop labels dumping stock. HMV is the only physical place a lot of people outside big cities would be able to find a mid-range indie artist, the kind who gets reviewed in the broadsheets and mags but doesn't make the charts or daytime radio.

Webstarr
16-01-2011, 12:59 PM
Would the failure of HMV invigorate independents?

I went into Oxford Street HMV during the week with Terror Danjah and it was like a graveyard for CDs. They had albums released within the last 6 months for £6 stacked to the brim. Then you had recent independent albums in there for £14?!

Was weird

It depends what type of independent, the small shops that sell mainly CDs then yes I think it will. For the dance music orientated shops I don't really see it having much of an impact as people mainly go there for vinyl, which I doubt HMV still sells anyway

mms
16-01-2011, 03:46 PM
Would the failure of HMV invigorate independents?

I went into Oxford Street HMV during the week with Terror Danjah and it was like a graveyard for CDs. They had albums released within the last 6 months for £6 stacked to the brim. Then you had recent independent albums in there for £14?!

Was weird

well that's part of the problem as they're selling off that stock at cost cos they overstocked in the last 6 months, which shows you they support good music, the problem is also independent new albums stocked at £14 of course, as they're cheaper in amazon and play - who incidentally don't pay VAT, and can charge cheaper prices, plus hammer distributors, so HMV is kinda fucked in that way unless they do something different, it's a shame they're being punished as offshore companies can charge less, but alas it's one of the many visible contradictions of wresting with current government etc.

It does own Fopp of course, who are quite often masters of taking in stock, and often kinda rebranding it - usually overstocks at distributors and big lists of label stock and selling it at knock off prices, - since they're a bit more specialist it works for them, so HMV could benefit from following more of a Fopp model or something similar, infact i think there is a real gap in the market for something that connects with music fans on more of that level, HMV have a whole interest in live music as well, it's actually got alot of strong assets about it and potentially lots of opportunities, but it's firefighting right now and needs to be more proactive and essentially look like it loves the things it sells, as i'm sure it's young employees of music and film fans for inspiration, cut away the rigid management, present the things that it's competitors don't have and be a bit more humble, less like a corporate warehouse with tills, and more like the sort of place people can enjoy and discover stuff in.

The slow death of the other stores hasn't invigorated indies so far, but it could be different with HMV as it's the last one standing, HMV's expansion definitely killed indies too on the way up. Dance music stores, of which there are very few now, need to adapt too I think.

thats my half arsed thinking anyway, - it's probably a little too late still.

Elijah
16-01-2011, 03:59 PM
Basically HMV become a nationwide version of rough trade?

Sectionfive
16-01-2011, 04:01 PM
Nice whinge from HMV here (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0108/1224287019085.html)
Can't say I feel too sorry for them.

Benny B
16-01-2011, 04:08 PM
It depends what type of independent, the small shops that sell mainly CDs then yes I think it will. For the dance music orientated shops I don't really see it having much of an impact as people mainly go there for vinyl, which I doubt HMV still sells anyway

apart from all those audiophile 180gm reissues. I was in HMV the other day and saw a reissue of Neil Young's 'Everybody knows this is nowhere' selling for £53!!!

There was no extra tracks, artwork or anything particularly special about it either, just the standard album repressed. Who on earth would pay that much?

The 12" single section had dwindled down to a few dog-eared copies of the last Mark Ronsen single. Pretty dire situation...

mms
16-01-2011, 04:14 PM
Basically HMV become a nationwide version of rough trade?

not that far, at all, as the people that shop there are more interested in a wider range of things, and they sell a wider range of things too, but they should steal ideas from all over the place, rough trade being one of them, but i think they should be aware they can exploit a miriad of niches, obviously not just music too, but the strengths they have is the range they have in a way too.

Leo
16-01-2011, 04:30 PM
fwiw, the disappearance of large music retailers hasn't seemed to have done anything to help small indie stores in nyc. over the past few years, tower, virgin and hmv all went out of business here, yet the number of indie shops continues to decline and those that have stayed in business (like other music) now carry a more narrow selection of new releases and drastically less back catalog inventory. could be to do with the ridiculously high rents here, but i can't imagine london overhead is that much cheaper.

rumors have swirled for the past couple of years that rough trade was scouting locations here to open a brick lane-type store. while i'd love that to happen, they'd have to be pretty brave.

Leo
16-01-2011, 04:41 PM
lol james blake bells sketch - 511

wouldn't surprise me if he's had at least twice as many illegal downloads of "cmyk" than the 4,000 units he's sold.

4linehaiku
16-01-2011, 05:30 PM
Adding up the downloads of CMYK on two bittorrent trackers I'm aware of totals ~6400. I would say twice as many is an underestimate.

crackerjack
16-01-2011, 05:49 PM
well that's part of the problem as they're selling off that stock at cost cos they overstocked in the last 6 months.
HMV sale had virtually all of last year's EMI releases that are > 6 months old for £3. Mate of mine (who worked for an EMI subsid for years) said that's not HMV overstock, it's label over-press, just dumping them on HMV. Horrendous situation for the artists.

connect_icut
16-01-2011, 06:00 PM
Getting back to the original subject of this thread: I'm amazed that JoNew only sold 50,000 units. Less than Direhunter!

mms
16-01-2011, 06:15 PM
Adding up the downloads of CMYK on two bittorrent trackers I'm aware of totals ~6400. I would say twice as many is an underestimate.

Yes so would I - more like 20 / 30 times.
those cmyk sales are really good for a 12" in the US.

mms
16-01-2011, 06:18 PM
HMV sale had virtually all of last year's EMI releases that are > 6 months old for £3. Mate of mine (who worked for an EMI subsid for years) said that's not HMV overstock, it's label over-press, just dumping them on HMV. Horrendous situation for the artists.

Yes you're right there, i'm not really sure how the chain shops and the majors work together, but like most of their business, i'm sure it's not healthy actually or any other way. There must be a situation where these things are eventually returned and probably destroyed too though, I dunno, it's all fucked isn't it?

connect_icut
16-01-2011, 10:11 PM
I mean how can JoNew possibly selling half as much as indie nonentities like fucking Beach House???

Leo
17-01-2011, 12:11 AM
I mean how can JoNew possibly selling half as much as indie nonentities like fucking Beach House???

that beach house record topped lots of "best of" lists this year. i think it was pretty popular for an indie, a safe choice for playing at cocktail parties by people who don't buy a lot of music. and maybe the newsom was a little high-priced as a 3cd set.

connect_icut
17-01-2011, 05:30 AM
that beach house record topped lots of "best of" lists this year. i think it was pretty popular for an indie, a safe choice for playing at cocktail parties by people who don't buy a lot of music. and maybe the newsom was a little high-priced as a 3cd set.

Yes, other people have suggested to me that the price of the JoNew album might have been a factor in it's shockingly low sales. Also, I realise that it was foolish of me to assume that nonentities sell fewer albums than people who are actually interesting do.

outraygeous
17-01-2011, 12:55 PM
This is painful :(

We still need HMV as a retailer on the high street. I hate supermarkets selling music, they have no interest in music sales at all.

I dont know if indie music stores will come back. The dealer prices of CDs these days are incredibly high. As a rule of thumb, Amazon will sell a CD for what they bought it for or less. Obviously I am unaware of the discounts they get but thats the rule.

Leo
17-01-2011, 01:16 PM
maybe a dumb question, but is ANYONE along the creation/supply/retail chain making the money on cds?

if a cd sells for 14 pounds in HMV as previously mentioned, then who -- artist, label, manufacturer, distributor, retailer -- is getting what share of that price?

Mr. Tea
17-01-2011, 01:31 PM
As a rule of thumb, Amazon will sell a CD for what they bought it for or less.

Excuse a dumb question, but: what's in it for Amazon?

Sectionfive
17-01-2011, 02:09 PM
The last independent music store in town went in to liquidation today...




maybe a dumb question, but is ANYONE along the creation/supply/retail chain making the money on cds?

if a cd sells for 14 pounds in HMV as previously mentioned, then who -- artist, label, manufacturer, distributor, retailer -- is getting what share of that price?

Not sure how accurate this (http://www.theroot.com/views/how-much-do-you-musicians-really-make?GT1=38002) is , I know I seen a better one somewhere last year.

crackerjack
17-01-2011, 02:26 PM
Yes, other people have suggested to me that the price of the JoNew album might have been a factor in it's shockingly low sales. Also, I realise that it was foolish of me to assume that nonentities sell fewer albums than people who are actually interesting do.

Also – and I maybe projecting my own feelings here – I reckon a lot of people who quite like the idea of JoNew probably feel one album is enough and would be happy to stick with Ys, even if the new one weren't a treble.




Excuse a dumb question, but: what's in it for Amazon?

I'd like to echo Tea's question here. Tiny margins, sure, but not for nothing, or a loss.

outraygeous
17-01-2011, 02:30 PM
okay, this is the first example that came up on the EMI website

Pro Green Alive till im dead - Dealer Price = 3.76
Amazon = 4.99
Play = 3.99

Kinda messed up huh?

Sony below, notoriously high dealers

Sleigh Bells - Treats = Dealer £6 ish
Amazon = £5.99
Play = £5.99

Sectionfive
17-01-2011, 02:31 PM
Excuse a dumb question, but: what's in it for Amazon?


They can afford it and if your buying from them your not buying from the competition ?
Wont be long till Amazon have a complete monopoly and then its back to £15 a CD ?

crackerjack
17-01-2011, 02:35 PM
okay, this is the first example that came up on the EMI website

Pro Green Alive till im dead - Dealer Price = 3.76
Amazon = 4.99
Play = 3.99

Kinda messed up huh?

But presumably the web retailers drive down the listed dealer price, right? That's how they roll.

crackerjack
17-01-2011, 02:36 PM
They can afford it and if your buying from them your not buying from the competition ?
Wont be long till Amazon have a complete monopoly and then its back to £15 a CD ?

Nah, that ain't gonna happen ever, not until they can block downloading.

outraygeous
17-01-2011, 02:40 PM
Labels (the big 4) are shit scared so they cave in to the demands of what they see as big retaliers. Amazons and Supermarkets.

Imagine if Tesco said they were not going to stock your cd, you just drop the price.

Big retailers hold the power and determine the price.

Sectionfive
17-01-2011, 02:46 PM
Nah, that ain't gonna happen ever, not until they can block downloading.

Talking about Amazon selling CDs at cost though

crackerjack
17-01-2011, 02:50 PM
Talking about Amazon selling CDs at cost though

Sure, but there's no way the retail price is going back up to £15 while people can easily download for free.

Leo
17-01-2011, 02:56 PM
Big retailers hold the power and determine the price.

yet they often sell the cds at or near cost as a loss leader to get people in the stores.

it appears that small indie retailers make little margin because their costs are high, and large chains make little or no margin by choice. so in the end, this has become an industry where no one makes any money, wtf? :slanted:

outraygeous
17-01-2011, 03:01 PM
scares the shit out of me because this is my living and you can clearly see no one is making any money

Webstarr
17-01-2011, 06:08 PM
I imagine the likes of Play/Tesco/Amazon do use the big releases as a loss leader when they first come out, I reckon the rest of the time they just hammer the supply chain. There's so few retailers than have the bulk buying power compared to ten years ago that they can basically dictate their own terms. Also they may advertise the CD but then try and persuade people to buy the download off their site where they do have a bit better mark up

Fundamental
18-01-2011, 12:46 AM
Most indies in the UK will report sales figures back...

outraygeous
18-01-2011, 10:11 AM
Not every store is chart registered

Alfons
18-01-2011, 05:05 PM
This might be of note here:
http://www.inthemix.com.au/news/intl/49028/Resurgence_in_vinyl_sales

vinyl sales are up 14% in 2010 (went up 33% in 2009), a mixture of indie hits and canon rock/pop stuff in the top 10 it seems.

crackerjack
18-01-2011, 05:14 PM
This might be of note here:
http://www.inthemix.com.au/news/intl/49028/Resurgence_in_vinyl_sales

vinyl sales are up 14% in 2010 (went up 33% in 2009), a mixture of indie hits and canon rock/pop stuff in the top 10 it seems.

Is that just Australia? Dunno if soundscan do their charts...

Alfons
18-01-2011, 08:28 PM
Is that just Australia? Dunno if soundscan do their charts...

Im assuming its US only (perhaps Canada too?), Soundscan is primarily US based no?

Fundamental
19-01-2011, 12:08 PM
Not every store is chart registered

Of course not, but the majority of rock/indie stores are and those linked to the Chain With No Name distribution will be. That would make the largest in every major city chart registered, plus if your local regional indie does in-store signings/gigs then it will be chart registered. Dance music stores that are or were formerly vinyl lead might not be, but to be honest they are missing a trick, if they have vested insterests in artists or labels. Tinie Tempah would probably have been signed 2 years quicker if it were the case for instance.

Fundamental
19-01-2011, 12:32 PM
Also, while perhaps independent labels are not shifting as many units as they might have done in the 90s there has never been a greater shift of power towards the artist or 'artist label'.

Major record labels are screwed because they have huge overheads and a sluggish, top-down system of management. Artist lead labels can be spontaneous and keep their ear to the floor better. Digital overheads are negligible and lead times are short. Profits are near instant and will be 100% rather than a paltry avg-18% offered by majors. I'll give some examples....

Ed Shereen: was basically unsigned, Had a number 2 EP in the iTunes UK chart 2 weeks back, funded off of selling his CDs at gigs for 5 quid. Is signing a deal today with Atlantic.

Tinie Tempah was discovered after the indie distributor for his CDs rang up the head of EMI because he saw a kid coming in with presses of 10,000 units at a time.

Rinse FM: their jewel is Katy B, had a grassroots campaign and digital drive on itunes/twitter has put several tracks in the top 10. Radio 1 were completely cool with supporting a non-major act and it paid off.

Digital Soundboy hooking up with Universal, similar things with several other underground labels.

Even mid-level indies are better well oiled than the majors. See Wretch 32 pwning it this week on the Ministry of Sound label.

There are plenty of people making money still. Real money not hype driven, re-coupable record advances.

Elijah
19-01-2011, 12:57 PM
Also, while perhaps independent labels are not shifting as many units as they might have done in the 90s there has never been a greater shift of power towards the artist or 'artist label'.

Major record labels are screwed because they have huge overheads and a sluggish, top-down system of management. Artist lead labels can be spontaneous and keep their ear to the floor better. Digital overheads are negligible and lead times are short. Profits are near instant and will be 100% rather than a paltry avg-18% offered by majors. I'll give some examples....

Ed Shereen: was basically unsigned, Had a number 2 EP in the iTunes UK chart 2 weeks back, funded off of selling his CDs at gigs for 5 quid. Is signing a deal today with Atlantic.

Tinie Tempah was discovered after the indie distributor for his CDs rang up the head of EMI because he saw a kid coming in with presses of 10,000 units at a time.

Rinse FM: their jewel is Katy B, had a grassroots campaign and digital drive on itunes/twitter has put several tracks in the top 10. Radio 1 were completely cool with supporting a non-major act and it paid off.

Digital Soundboy hooking up with Universal, similar things with several other underground labels.

Even mid-level indies are better well oiled than the majors. See Wretch 32 pwning it this week on the Ministry of Sound label.

There are plenty of people making money still. Real money not hype driven, re-coupable record advances.

When independent artists go to a major they always lie about sales. I dont know why.

Ed Sheeran was already involved with the label before hand.

Tinie Tempah or no other Grime MC was going to independent distributors with 10,000 CDs. If Tinie was doing 10,000 CDs on the underground we would of known about it.

Wretch 32 your right is on Ministry Of Sound, but they have spent a lot of money getting him PR. He is number 4 in the midweeks with 16,000 sold. 95% of that would be digital, even if they where getting the full 79p, that isnt not even £16,000 and would be a loss making project. They are paying a lot out to help get the profile to sell albums. But these peoples albums are not selling.

Urban music economics is totally screwed

Webstarr
19-01-2011, 06:22 PM
I'd be interested to know what cut the label takes off live performances, they much be taking a chunk as its the only place artists are making serious cash. Tinie Tempah is doing bookings for £10,000 a go, maybe even more now. I can see it coming to the stage where the whole recording business at that level is basically a marketing tool to get bookings and sell merchandise

continuum
19-01-2011, 08:11 PM
2p > the more music availability moves away from a money making operation the better. buying music is a waste of money. you simply don't need to if you have the internet or friends. live performance and merchandise are where an artist will make there living solely.

Fundamental
19-01-2011, 09:39 PM
Ed Sheeran has had majors/publishers sniffing about for months yeah, but not a pound was spent by Atlantic to get that EP into the itunes chart. Accepted he used a few big names help it get there but when ever has that ever been the case in the record industry before?

Tempah had virtually no heat on him until EMI caught wind of his pressing figures, fact.

The point about Wretch is that Ministry is not the average major label vehicle to be hitting a top 5 chart position, January time accepted. the Rinse/Katy B thing certainly is not. The equivalent of Rinse ten years ago would be something could be something like True Playaz or maybe XL and while the figures dime for dime might have even been more, they wouldn't be competing with the majors as a percentage of the market. Majors are tumbling, and the indies are rising.

The music industry is still screwed of course...

Leo
19-01-2011, 09:46 PM
2p > the more music availability moves away from a money making operation the better. buying music is a waste of money. you simply don't need to if you have the internet or friends. live performance and merchandise are where an artist will make there living solely.

that's a little extreme. there are plenty of artists who don't sell perform live, either because their music doesn't lend itself to touring or because they're somehow unable to do so. what about them?

continuum
20-01-2011, 06:55 AM
that's a little extreme. there are plenty of artists who don't sell perform live, either because their music doesn't lend itself to touring or because they're somehow unable to do so. what about them?

will have to rely on merchandise i guess

crackerjack
20-01-2011, 12:30 PM
Im assuming its US only (perhaps Canada too?), Soundscan is primarily US based no?

yes, so far as i know, but that looks like an aussie website and it seems odd to run foreign sales figs without mentioning it

michael
21-01-2011, 07:48 AM
I was curious, so... number of different listeners on Last.fm at at today:

50 Wavves – King of the Beach (Soundscan:18563 vs. Last.fm:51352)
49 Wild Nothing – Gemini (Soundscan:8773 vs. Last.fm:34654)
44 Kylesa – Spiral Shadow (Soundscan:7778 vs. Last.fm:14808)
43 Tame Impala – Innerspeaker (Soundscan:15101 vs. Last.fm:27882)
42 Drake – Thank Me Later (Soundscan:1219473 vs. Last.fm:130235)
39 Best Coast – Crazy For You (Soundscan:48296 vs. Last.fm:77304)
38 Rick Ross – Teflon Don (Soundscan:541299 vs. Last.fm:45111)
35 Gorillaz – Plastic Beach (Soundscan:385454 vs. Last.fm:376144)
34 Crystal Castles – Crystal Castles (Soundscan:39368 vs. Last.fm:125304)
33 The Tallest Man on Earth – The Wild Hunt (Soundscan:35524 vs. Last.fm:91651)
29 The Fresh & Onlys – Play It Strange (Soundscan:3633 vs. Last.fm:4410)
28 The National – High Violet (Soundscan:211615 vs. Last.fm:129628)
27 Four Tet – There Is Love in You (Soundscan:22228 vs. Last.fm:74587)
26 Twin Shadow – Forget (Soundscan:10985 vs. Last.fm:56484)
25 Sufjan Stevens – The Age of Adz (Soundscan:100405 vs. Last.fm:59524)
24 Hot Chip – One Life Stand (Soundscan:~30k vs. Last.fm:185698)
22 Girls – Broken Dreams Club EP (Soundscan:10266 vs. Last.fm:15339)
21 The Walkmen – Lisbon (Soundscan:39159 vs. Last.fm:47023)
18 Erykah Badu – New Amerykah Part Two: Return of the Ankh (Soundscan:~300k vs. Last.fm:64901)
17 Caribou – Swim (Soundscan:33803 vs. Last.fm:143925)
16 Sleigh Bells – Treats (Soundscan:94478 vs. Last.fm:163814)
15 Robyn – Body Talk (Soundscan:23869 vs. Last.fm:30548)
14 Flying Lotus – Cosmogramma (Soundscan:33574 vs. Last.fm:48177)
13 No Age – Everything In Between (Soundscan:13802 vs. Last.fm:36546)
12 Janelle Monae – The ArchAndroid (Soundscan:129152 vs. Last.fm:37980)
11 Arcade Fire – The Suburbs (Soundscan:459083 vs. Last.fm:219455)
10 Titus Andronicus – The Monitor (Soundscan:26090 vs. Last.fm:39267)
9 Ariel Pink’s Haunted Graffiti – Before Today (Soundscan:25942 vs. Last.fm:41866)
8 James Blake – The Bells Sketch EP / CMYK EP / Klavierwerke EP (Soundscan:511/4,091/na vs. Last.fm:7157 / 17054 / 13807)
7 Joanna Newsom – Have One on Me (Soundscan:48754 vs. Last.fm:45620)
6 Vampire Weekend – Contra (Soundscan:454914 vs. Last.fm:257124)
5 Beach House – Teen Dream (Soundscan:104217 vs. Last.fm:266464)
4 Big Boi – Sir Lucious Left Foot: The Son of Chico Dusty (Soundscan:208747 vs. Last.fm:26060)
3 Deerhunter – Halcyon Digest (Soundscan:59879 vs. Last.fm:56024)
2 LCD Soundsystem – This Is Happening (Soundscan:126288 vs. Last.fm:193019)
1 Kanye West – My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy (Soundscan:915391 vs. Last.fm:139729)


Where last.fm didn't have the album I just found the first track and went with number of listeners.

mms
21-01-2011, 09:22 AM
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5jV9TsyBUlWczdIiFermGIR1XPEWA?docId=N02563112 95512132673A

connect_icut
21-01-2011, 04:26 PM
I was curious, so... number of different listeners on Last.fm at at today:
Where last.fm didn't have the album I just found the first track and went with number of listeners.

Nice work. I always use Last FM as a gauge of someone's true popularity. Of course, the number of listeners on Last FM is presumably only a fraction of any given artist's overall audience. But what fraction, I wonder?

dennichristianthegreate
05-02-2011, 09:42 PM
Its a generation thing...i would have included the pioneers of grunge rock Nirvana and Pearl Jam due to their commercial and critical success and also for popularizing a new genre of rock music back then. I also would include Oasis and Metallica and probably the most successful punk rock band of all time in terms of sales--Greenday.

Its a generation thing really..those in the list mentioned are mostly from the 60s and 70s, so they are "legends" but innovations and commercial success should also be included in the criteria of choosing the best bands of all time...

IMO of course