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View Full Version : which country is responsible for the worst music?



stelfox
25-04-2005, 02:08 PM
i am fully aware that this thread may cause a spot of bother, but talking to a friend about this over the weekend, i've come to the conclusion that scottish music is almost entirely horrendous.

in order to state my case fully i call on you to view exhibit A: Deacon Blue *gasps of horror echo across the courtroom*
then, to prove that this nation has no regard for public decency whatever, exhibit b: Runrig (the use of bagpipes in pop music will NEVER be a good idea, the sole exception being dancehall's kashmir rhythm).
and, finally, the most damning piece of evidence of all, exhibit c) *pulls a copy of marillion's misplaced childhood album from suit jacket, holding between piched fingers, like a soiled diaper, as some more fainthearted members of the public gallery begin to faint*

so ladies and gentlemen of the jury, i ask you to take account of only what you have seen here today and do your duty. convict scotland of making the shittiest music ever (and yes that does include the blue nile, before anyone tries to say that they're any good).

stelfox
25-04-2005, 02:17 PM
The Proclaimers.
Big Country.
Belle & Sebastian.
The Bay City Rollers.

God, all this makes wrapping a hard-boiled egg in meat and deep frying it seem like a cultural high water mark.

childrentalking
25-04-2005, 02:48 PM
there are a few good bands/artists, but considering its size the shit:gold ratio is pretty unhealthy. check this out: http://www.list.co.uk/fiftybandsmain.html

more bad: Wet Wet Wet. Texas. Travis. Idlewild. Del Amitri. Aberfeldy (just terrible).

boomnoise
25-04-2005, 02:51 PM
for:

average white band
bmx bandits
mull historical society
delgados
arab strap
boards of canada
aztec camera
del amitri
franz ferdinand
travis
wet wet wet

against:

boards of canada
mogwai
orange juice

bun-u
25-04-2005, 03:29 PM
I somehow knew this'd be about scotland. C'mon, they only have around 5 million mans & womans and they're also struggling to pull a decent football team together

For the motion
chemikal underground

Against
postcard records

stelfox
25-04-2005, 03:41 PM
i see you and i raise you fairground attraction

john eden
25-04-2005, 03:47 PM
Marillion were only partly Scottish iirc, in the same way that Test Dept (in the "against" category, despite use of bagepipes) were only partly scottish.

Cards on the table time - I am apparently about 1/32nd scottish. I also used to own some Marillion albums. And still do own some Test Dept ones. :)

boomnoise
25-04-2005, 03:50 PM
Against the motion:

Ewan MacColl

For the motion:

Robert Burns

stelfox
25-04-2005, 03:59 PM
i'm half scottish, by blood. i never owned a marillion record.

bassnation
25-04-2005, 04:11 PM
i'm half scottish, by blood. i never owned a marillion record.

is that "never owned" as in "i've concealed them somewhere no visitor will ever find them and i'm now erasing the fact that i ever owned them from my memory in a stalin-like revisionist stylee" by any chance, dave?

;)

stelfox
25-04-2005, 04:14 PM
no. though, to be fair, i don't really remember what marillion sounded like. i only remember that they were very, very bad.

reposed
25-04-2005, 04:32 PM
the country responsible for the worst music?? it's got to be scandanavian for a start. .

a handful *for* scotland. .

Electroscope
"Electroscope are the esoteric Scottish duo of Gayle Harrison and John Cavanagh. They are pretty much off exploring their own private obsessions in their own way in their own time and on their own. They use old analogue tape recorders rescued from skips to record quietish clarinet, keyboards and guitar. I hear very few groups that I can't throw in with a 'trend' or into a dismissive box. Believe me, Electroscope are one of the very few that I'd describe as unselfconscious, fascinated and odd. .... They are the real thing, a quietly individual group which sadly will go over most people's heads."
<www.thesoundprojector.com/exc_sp3_disc_den.html>

The Valves
"Edinburgh's finest. .
http://www.punk77.co.uk/groups/valves.htm

Richard Youngs
-- i'm cheating here because he's english, but glasgow has been his home for some time.. "
Lying somewhere between the warped psychedelia of The Bevis Frond and the minimalist folk of Robert Wyatt lies Richard Youngs, an Englishman who has been quietly putting out albums both solo and in collaboration with such like minded sonic explorers like Simon Wickham-Smith and The Vibracathedral Orchestra for the past 13 years. The noisy and aching sound of his music has attracted such labels as Siltbreeze and Table of the Elements to his cause, but has also managed to slip under the cultural radar for quite some time"
<http://www.indiepop.com/vol007/richard.php>

egg
25-04-2005, 05:53 PM
teenage fanclub, jesus and mary chain. not too bad.

i realise I'm in for a kicking on that one.

I understand the argument and it's one I've made a few times meself, based on the fact that the majority of scottish bands that I remember value the technical side of musicianship above proper emotional connection.

but you can't damn a country by the amount of crap succesful bands it has. you should damn it by the amount of good bands it lacks. How many shit English bands are there? fucken loads. Probably more than Scots.

I'm in for canada. it's shit.

SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT.

I'd also like to see the following argument made by persons more knowledgeable:

France v Scotland

egg
25-04-2005, 05:54 PM
Oh yeah and come on, what of any musical significance has Australia produced?

It's a cultural desert! :p

afrobongo
25-04-2005, 06:51 PM
France ?
Belgium ?
Switzerland ?

or even worse:

The whole Eastern Europe.

Ness Rowlah
25-04-2005, 07:19 PM
Scotland is forgiven for ever - for this is the land that gave us The Associates.

Anything good ever coming from Austria?

carlos
25-04-2005, 07:29 PM
Anything good ever coming from Austria?

Mozart and Mego?

Ness Rowlah
25-04-2005, 07:41 PM
France ?
Belgium ?
Switzerland ?

or even worse:

The whole Eastern Europe.

Switzerland - Yello
Belgium - Telex, Mathilde Santing, Le Disques De Crepuscule
France - electronics like Air, Bernard Szajner and JM Jarre, ehh Plastic Bertrand (? - OK then)

Eastern Europe - got one record by an Estonian lady called Ingrid Karklins, which is OK in a Tori Amos, folkish sort of way
Those Bulgarian folk singers
Poland gave us the lead singer of Holy Toy (the best postpunk you never heard, I might do a write-up on
them with some sound samples once I can muster some energy. I have plans for some sort of round up
Scandivian postpunk article (to include the postpunk of Holy Toy and the new romantic Swedes of Lustans Lakejer and possibly Kai Martin&Stick )- another "future project" ...

Pearsall
25-04-2005, 07:49 PM
France ?


Everyone always gives the French a kicking for antics like their undying love for Johnny Halliday, but they haven't been so bad on the musical front. I like some of the old school chanson people (Edith Piaf, etc.), plus Serge Gainsbourg, a lot of the mid-90's house (Daft Punk, Etienne de Crecy, Motorbass, etc.) plus they've made some good-to-great rap music over the last decade or so. And undoubtedly more stuff I can't remember.

The French ain't so bad.

Chef Napalm
25-04-2005, 07:52 PM
I'm in for canada. it's shit.

SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT.
Easy there, Trigger. Look, I know that we gave the world Celine Dion, but her musical crimes are paltry when compared to those of **shudder** The Sensational Alex Harvey Band.

Plus, one has to take into account the contributions of Gordon Lightfoot, The Guess Who, Neil Young, and Hank Snow.

No, Mr. egg, Canada's not your whipping boy. IMHO, Japan is the only candidate. J-pop makes my skin crawl.

Ness Rowlah
25-04-2005, 08:16 PM
IMHO, Japan is the only candidate. J-pop makes my skin crawl.

no expert on this - but I liked Sandii&the Sunsetz and this Bonnie Pink tune (http://2005.sxsw.com/music/showcases/band/18723.html) is sort of in the same tradition.

It's synthetic and sweet and innocent, but I prefer this to any "indie" band with
jangly guitars and sounding a bit like the Cure/Coldplay ;-)

Eric
25-04-2005, 08:34 PM
IMHO, Japan is the only candidate. J-pop makes my skin crawl.

agreed---the quantity of hideous pop coming out of Japan is massive. but they have their upside too: Boredoms, endless noise crap, goodt homegrown reggae (Papa B, Mighty Crown & a million other lower profile soundsystems & djs/singers), techno/house scene ... why point fingers only there? to me any of Korea/HK/Taiwan would be an easier sell. they have all the crap Jpop style stuff and none of the redeeming features.

I nominate Korea!!

Melmoth
25-04-2005, 10:03 PM
ireland: U2, sinead o'connor, afro-celt sound system, hothouse flowers, daniel O'donnell, showbands, ash, microdisney, fatima mansions, van fucking morrison.

mms
25-04-2005, 10:14 PM
scotland?
scotland?

what about australia??
anti
inxs
jason donovan
concorde dawn
angry anderson
that cancer bird who does the advert
savage garden
midnight oil
anyone else practically

for
the bad seeds

Omaar
25-04-2005, 10:17 PM
why point fingers only there? to me any of Korea/HK/Taiwan would be an easier sell. they have all the crap Jpop style stuff and none of the redeeming features.

I nominate Korea!!

In its defense, Taiwanese Pop (T-pop?) has some pretty class acts like Richie Jen and Jay Zhou.

Some languages are not really good for hip-hop. I'm not fond of Italian rap. Still, better than trying to fake american english I guess.

Omaar
25-04-2005, 10:21 PM
scotland?
scotland?

what about australia??
anti
inxs
jason donovan
concorde dawn
angry anderson
that cancer bird who does the advert
savage garden
midnight oil
anyone else practically

for
the bad seeds


I think Concord Dawn are from NZ. They are still pretty awful. Savage Garden are particularly ghastly. OZ has a pretty shit hard rock scene from what I hear.

baboon2004
25-04-2005, 10:27 PM
France? - how could anyone mention France in this context??

Austria - Kruder & Dorfmeister, Fennesz, Stereotyp....

Eastern Europe - Bartok, Part, Tchaikovsky, etc etc.

Australia sucks - right on.

New Zealand?

Ireland is pretty bad, but sinead's a positive, not a negative. My Bloody Valentine too.

baboon2004
25-04-2005, 10:28 PM
And Belgium - Jacques Brel, all the early 90s hardcore stuuf

carlos
25-04-2005, 10:34 PM
i'll stick up for Australia here...

Australian stuff i own and like:

Radio Birdman
The Scientists
The Saints
The New Chirsts
The Sick Things
Buffalo
AC/DC
The Easybeats
SPK
Feedtime
Birthday Party / Nick Cave
Bloody Fist Records

late 70s / early 80s punk stuff is top notch

mms
25-04-2005, 10:44 PM
i'll stick up for Australia here...

Australian stuff i own and like:

Radio Birdman
The Scientists
The Saints
The New Chirsts
The Sick Things
Buffalo
AC/DC
The Easybeats
SPK
Feedtime
Birthday Party / Nick Cave
Bloody Fist Records

late 70s / early 80s punk stuff is top notch



ok i'll give you ac/dc
i was so pleased you didn't say dead c as i'm convinced they are just made up by the wire.

here are some more
natalie umbruglia
danni minogue
mental as anything
the avalanches
jet
crowded house
dr robert fom the blow monkeys
men at work.

carlos
25-04-2005, 10:51 PM
i was so pleased you didn't say dead c


dead c = NZ i think...

mms
25-04-2005, 10:56 PM
dead c = NZ i think...

yeah yeah they keep on changing the story over at wire hq. ;)

afrobongo
25-04-2005, 11:01 PM
France? - how could anyone mention France in this context??


someone who lives in France.

And who keeps forgetting the Versailles Boys are french.

Someone mentionned Plastic Bertrand though !!!!!!!

I mean...

Omaar
25-04-2005, 11:27 PM
ok i'll give you ac/dc
i was so pleased you didn't say dead c as i'm convinced they are just made up by the wire.

here are some more
natalie umbruglia
danni minogue
mental as anything
the avalanches
jet
crowded house
dr robert fom the blow monkeys
men at work.

yeah dead c are from NZ too, and crowded house are really as well.

Omaar
25-04-2005, 11:36 PM
ok i'll give you ac/dc
i was so pleased you didn't say dead c as i'm convinced they are just made up by the wire.


I can report a confirmed sighting of them playing support for sonic youth in Wellington, just to dispel any rumours ... ;)

jwd
26-04-2005, 06:39 AM
i'm not going to take stelfox on re: scotland, suffice to say anyone who knows me knows of my love for scottish music (though the stuff stelfox mentioned is completely crap, true.)

australia: umm, okay. extradition. master's apprentices. go-betweens. the scientists. feedtime. hoss. sunset strip. small world experience. the moles. severed heads. spk. laughing hands. ed kuepper/laughing clowns. primitive calculators. voigt 456. the apartments. lighthouse keepers. essendon airport. makers of the dead travel fast. tame omearas. minimum chips. the particles. hi-god people. solids. dworzec. the cannanes. chris smith. pateras/baxter/brown. oren ambarchi. the necks. robbie avenaim. the lost domain. dne. ugly ugly ugly. the saints. the birthday party (bad seeds my ass - everything after the first three records is bollocks, "deanna" excepted.) the bee gees. lobby lloyde.

all the above are great. i don't buy the ac/dc thing though. they're boring.

mms, i love you, but your disbelief re: the dead c is entirely too predictable. i do like your theory though. so when i saw them live twice last month, i was probably actually watching the ben watson group, right?

martin
26-04-2005, 09:04 AM
Scotland gave the world The Gallowglass Ceili Band, Ivor Cutler and the "Ha! Ha! Funny Polis" EP, which is one of the best snarly youthful copper-bashing punk-rocking 7 inches I've ever had the pleasure to slam on my turntable. That alone cancels out the aforementioned perpetrators.

I'd say the worst places for music are Wales and New Zealand.

droid
26-04-2005, 09:57 AM
ireland: U2, sinead o'connor, afro-celt sound system, hothouse flowers, daniel O'donnell, showbands, ash, microdisney, fatima mansions, van fucking morrison.

You forgot David Holmes, Boyzone, Westlife, The Corrs and (shudder) B*witched..

I know it looks bad, but the balance has been redressed slightly from the underground over the last few years...
Theres Techno and Electro: Decal, Americhord, D1 (David O' Donoghue, Rob Rowland, Donnacha Costello). Electronica + Ambient from the likes of Front End Synthetics, Daniel Figgis, Ambulance, The Fear ;) and Fallt.
D+B from Naphta, Bassbin, Looney Tunes, Subtle Audio etc...

...and loads more upcoming labels and artists.

And even though Ive never been a huge U2 fan - they did make some brilliant records back in the day, plus there's the Pogues, Horselips, The Frames and er Thin Lizzy...

Ill stop now.

droid
26-04-2005, 10:05 AM
That said we also RULE Eurovision! And I suppose that is the closest thing there is to a 'who can make the worst music' competition... Johnny Logan, Dana... and, jesus christ - The Fucking Nolans!!

jwd
26-04-2005, 10:13 AM
Scotland gave the world The Gallowglass Ceili Band, Ivor Cutler and the "Ha! Ha! Funny Polis" EP, which is one of the best snarly youthful copper-bashing punk-rocking 7 inches I've ever had the pleasure to slam on my turntable. That alone cancels out the aforementioned perpetrators.

I forgot about Ivor Cutler, good call that one. What's the story with "Ha! Ha! Funny Polis" - who's it by etc. etc.??


I'd say the worst places for music are Wales and New Zealand.

Can't argue with Wales (Manic Street Preachers, 'nuff said) but I won't start on the wealth of amazing stuff from NZ.

martin
26-04-2005, 10:30 AM
What's the story with "Ha! Ha! Funny Polis" - who's it by etc. etc.??

I'll have to dig it out again, it's a compilation EP from (I think) 1978 and a Rock Against Racism benefit...the bands are complete unknowns, I did wonder if it was the same band putting a different name on each track but that's probably racist (these Scots, they all sound the same to me, etc). One of the bands is called Defiant Pose. It's fast, trashy, jangly, singalong in your face stuff, with lyrics about being kicked down the stairs at the local cop shop, the kids uniting to beat up the polis, not wanting to work in an office cos it's BORING, etc. I picked it up off some market stall with a damaged sleeve yonks ago.

matt b
26-04-2005, 10:36 AM
i was thinking wales, but then i remembered acrimony.
but then i remembered arhenfrhn (can't spell or pronounce their name, but they were rubbish) and the cowboy killers, so it puts the welsh back in the frame.

Omaar
26-04-2005, 10:47 AM
I'd say the worst places for music are Wales and New Zealand.

Please elaborate on what's terrible about music from New Zealand. Not being defensive, just curious.

martin
26-04-2005, 10:50 AM
Please elaborate on what's terrible about music from New Zealand. Not being defensive, just curious.

To be honest, I'm only going on Crowded House - I haven't heard any others. The honest truth is I'm prejudiced against Kiwis.

stelfox
26-04-2005, 10:59 AM
marcus, the avalanches are terriffic. i was also waiting for mr dale to show up and give us both a pasting, too.
plastic bertrand was from brussels, therefore belgian.
belgium is totally redeemed by nu-beat and R&S records, the french have some wicked music so whoever decided to include them is quite barmy, the welsh have those singing coalminers from the pet shop boys' version of go west, the japanese are fine - plenty of good japanese music, not least the boredoms. no, still scotland for me.

bassnation
26-04-2005, 11:04 AM
i was thinking wales, but then i remembered acrimony.
but then i remembered arhenfrhn (can't spell or pronounce their name, but they were rubbish) and the cowboy killers, so it puts the welsh back in the frame.

is that the total culmination of your knowledge of welsh bands? cowboy killers? lol.

for a start, you've omitted john cale, v. suprising for an ultra trendy hipster such as yourself. for those of us who don't think "house" is a dirty word, you've got bands like k-klass (from wrexham). i could also recount the billions of noise and punk bands i saw in wales in the eighties, but frankly i can't be bothered.

still, outrageously sweeping generalisations damning huge groups of people arbitarily are de riguer on dissensus - so its good to see you've got your finger on the pulse, mr burrows.

jwd
26-04-2005, 11:28 AM
marcus, the avalanches are terriffic.

how could i forget them? terrific indeed. thanks for pulling me up on that one, dave.


i was also waiting for mr dale to show up and give us both a pasting, too.

well i'm nothing if not drearily predictable.

stelfox
26-04-2005, 11:30 AM
(well this stupid thread does kind of beg for someone to crop up and talk sense from a knowledgable, half-sensible perspective!)

Chef Napalm
26-04-2005, 12:14 PM
what about australia??
anti
inxs
jason donovan
concorde dawn
angry anderson
that cancer bird who does the advert
savage garden
midnight oil
anyone else practically
All cancelled by Rolf Harris, I'm afraid. That wobbly board in "Tie Me Kangaroo Down"; genius. Also the home of the Modular label.

My vote is still for Crapan.

reposed
26-04-2005, 12:26 PM
australia: umm, okay. extradition. master's apprentices. go-betweens. the scientists. feedtime. hoss. sunset strip. small world experience. the moles. severed heads. spk. laughing hands. ed kuepper/laughing clowns. primitive calculators. voigt 456. the apartments. lighthouse keepers. essendon airport. makers of the dead travel fast. tame omearas. minimum chips. the particles. hi-god people. solids. dworzec. the cannanes. chris smith. pateras/baxter/brown. oren ambarchi. the necks. robbie avenaim. the lost domain. dne. ugly ugly ugly. the saints. the birthday party (bad seeds my ass - everything after the first three records is bollocks, "deanna" excepted.) the bee gees. lobby lloyde.

whoa.. can't add much to that
cept late 70s early 80s -- bodysnatchers, slugfuckers, fungus brains, sick things, just urbain
actually just go direct to http://www.collectorscum.com/volume3/ozpunk.html

more recently -- dirty three, pimmon, lucas abela's dual plover label


mms, i love you, but your disbelief re: the dead c is entirely too predictable. i do like your theory though. so when i saw them live twice last month, i was probably actually watching the ben watson group, right?
that must be a record. i lived in their hometown for 7 years and and managed to see them twice.

matt b
26-04-2005, 12:38 PM
is that the total culmination of your knowledge of welsh bands? cowboy killers? lol.

hang on, i mentioned THREE welsh bands. i think that's quite a lot considering ;)


for a start, you've omitted john cale,.

on purpose- he hasn't lived in wales for twenty years, so i discounted him.


v. suprising for an ultra trendy hipster such as yourself.

thanks ;)


still, outrageously sweeping generalisations damning huge groups of people arbitarily are de riguer on dissensus - so its good to see you've got your finger on the pulse, mr burrows.

i'm getting there, i'm getting there...


"if you're not from wales, you can listen to tom jones, but you can't hear him"

soi
26-04-2005, 12:47 PM
right, i'm going to bang my particular obscure drum: sri lanka. i have never been to a country and so thoroughly disliked every single thing I've heard. It's all almost exactly the same: like one of those casio keyboard auto-chord backing tracks endlessly looped, then sung over tunelessly. As if they used to have good music, but at some point someone's gone through the entire back-catalogue and replaced all recordings with Muzak versions.

it's got so bad that I find myself listening to the cheesy FM stations HOPING to hear kenny rogers ffs.

ah, feels good to get that out of my system - carry on!

bassnation
26-04-2005, 12:58 PM
"if you're not from wales, you can listen to tom jones, but you can't hear him"

ha ha! my god, how could i have forgotten tom jones! i should relinguish my welsh nationality immediately for a slip up like that. ;)

my family knew him when he was still a brickie gigging round the local pubs. i seem to remember he nearly got lynched at a workingmans club in trinant for some ill-advised between song banter. my other tangental claim to fame is that my uncle once had a fight with neil kinnock on a school bus when they were kids, plus my sister once went out with nicky wire.

its a small world, especially in the valleys, where everyone is related to one another! ;)

martin
26-04-2005, 01:05 PM
sri lanka. i have never been to a country and so thoroughly disliked every single thing I've heard. It's all almost exactly the same: like one of those casio keyboard auto-chord backing tracks endlessly looped, then sung over tunelessly.

No more posts about MIA please, I beg you

egg
26-04-2005, 01:08 PM
that cancer bird who does the advertlol (but guiltily)

egg
26-04-2005, 01:09 PM
men at work.fucken class.

nz: brings us zane lowe n'est-ce pas?

(shudder)

egg
26-04-2005, 01:12 PM
[QUOTE=jwd]australia: the bee gees.QUOTE]
c'mon the bee gees are ours aint they?

jwd
26-04-2005, 01:38 PM
c'mon the bee gees are ours aint they?

sorry mate. (note australian colloquialism.) although the gibb brothers were born in england they emigrated to australia at a young age, and started their career here in about 1963 - they released a few australian-only singles and albums before heading back to england in 67 to try their luck. so yep, we can PROUDLY claim the bee gees as our own.

jwd
26-04-2005, 01:46 PM
bodysnatchers, slugfuckers, fungus brains, sick things, just urbain... dirty three, pimmon, lucas abela's dual plover label

slugfuckers! fungus brains! (slaps forehead) such great stuff. we should add that slugfuckers offshoot rhythmx chymx. (amazing split record with severed heads, i only heard it thanks to the great phil t.) also remember venom p stinger. sekret sekret. minit. david haines. joyce hinterding. stasis duo. peter blamey. tim catlin. candlesnuffer. crow. love positions. holy ghosts. all great. must confess i always found the dirty three way too melodramatic.


that must be a record. i lived in their hometown for 7 years and and managed to see them twice.

well, the dead c did six gigs in australia in two weeks, which must have been exhausting for them.

DigitalDjigit
26-04-2005, 01:57 PM
Listing good music is off-topic. It's all about the worst. I think Russia has been very crap for a while. From dance pop that all sounds the same to their horrible rap immitations and Backstreet Boys immitations and ancient pop stars that won't go away.

michael
26-04-2005, 02:07 PM
nz: brings us zane lowe n'est-ce pas?

(shudder)
He's just released a new album (http://store.nzmusic.com/cd/37277?osCsid=54e86e90dd12f4611a46f7125ce12775) with his group Breaks Co-op too. I think they only release in NZ cos he was worried it'd be seen as cashing in on his fame in the UK or something?!

Note the site I linked to says Lowe's "hotly tipped to replace the legendary John Peel".

egg
26-04-2005, 03:41 PM
sample sounds bland.

shame about the peel quote. the man himself doesn't seem given to that kind of hyperbole :D

don_quixote
26-04-2005, 05:12 PM
does ireland have any redeemable features?

bun-u
26-04-2005, 05:58 PM
does ireland have any redeemable features?

planxty
margaret barry
luke kelly

owen
26-04-2005, 06:47 PM
ireland still has the least redeeming features i've come across thus far (mind you i have heard of none of those people)

i can't believe people are mentioning belgium, france and switzerland here, they're all obviously great.

but eastern europe, all i can think of is EU and the guy who did the tarkovsky soundtracks...and scsi-9 i suppose. are plastic people of the universe any good, prog fans?

but i nominate...the last 10 years of english music not from the london pirate radio continuum. keep that proviso in mind and its obvious that we SUCK.

jenks
26-04-2005, 07:35 PM
[QUOTE=owen]but eastern europe, all i can think of is EU and the guy who did the tarkovsky soundtracks...and scsi-9 i suppose. are plastic people of the universe any good, prog fans?

QUOTE]
the czechs purport to love the plastic people yet whenever i asked if anyone had any of their stuff they shrugged theri shoulders and said noone actually listens to them - i got to hear them and understood why!( must be mentioned here i have a penman like aversion to zappa whilst the czechs created some kind of govt post for him) the czechs though have got iva bittova - had dunaj with pavel fajt (sorry if sp is wrong dissensus czechs) and the early incarnation of ecstacy of st teresa was great. apart from that it was lots of sub scorpions poodle perms

hamarplazt
26-04-2005, 09:00 PM
apart from that it was lots of sub scorpions poodle perms

No, apart from that it was also:

Leos Janacek, for my money the greatest of all the great east european folk-meets-quirky-modern-classical composers.

Jiri Stivin & Rudolf Dasek, the most bizarre jazz duo you'll ever hear.

Zdanek Liska, composer of the strange and beautyful music in many Jan Svankmajer films.

Sergej Auto, odd and charming modern techno-pop.

Melmoth
26-04-2005, 10:15 PM
planxty
margaret barry
luke kelly

Planxty I'll grant you, and Dylan says Luke Kelly is the best ballad singer he ever heard, but back in the dodgy corner:

Snow patrol, Horslips, David fucking Holmes, Clannad, Fergie and (flourish of trumpets) Enya.

ripley
27-04-2005, 12:20 AM
Eastern Europe?

Bogdan Racynski is pretty great (Poland)
Chris Su in Hungary has some good tracks, I think.

I like a lot of Roma/gypsy/whatchoucallit sounds (not all eastern-european, but pervasive and migratory) and many versions of Eastern European folk, up to and including Latcho Drom soundtracks and the even more produced/orchestrated Bulgarian Women's Choir.

But also, I remember hearing a live group of vocalists from Russia doing what were called 'folk' stuff with this bizarre melodeon hand-cranked-droning thing.. super harsh, close harmonies, totally great.

Melchior
27-04-2005, 12:59 AM
How do we decide which country gets the credit? I mean Jason Donovan, Kylie and all other neighbours stars may be Australian, but they owe their success entirely to the English. Most of them got their musical career started in the UK, with UK producers.

For what it's worth, I think NZ is more good than bad musically.

Melmoth
27-04-2005, 07:26 AM
You forgot David Holmes, Boyzone, Westlife, The Corrs and (shudder) B*witched..

I know it looks bad, but the balance has been redressed slightly from the underground over the last few years...
Theres Techno and Electro: Decal, Americhord, D1 (David O' Donoghue, Rob Rowland, Donnacha Costello). Electronica + Ambient from the likes of Front End Synthetics, Daniel Figgis, Ambulance, The Fear ;) and Fallt.
D+B from Naphta, Bassbin, Looney Tunes, Subtle Audio etc...

...and loads more upcoming labels and artists.

And even though Ive never been a huge U2 fan - they did make some brilliant records back in the day, plus there's the Pogues, Horselips, The Frames and er Thin Lizzy...

Ill stop now.

Just seen this Droid, after I posted below. The Corrs! Argh. Haven't heard of much of that other stuff, but I've been out of Ireland for a long time.

soi
27-04-2005, 08:27 AM
No more posts about MIA please, I beg you

:) they haven't heard of mia over here, if you played it to them i think their ears would fall off

mms
27-04-2005, 09:01 AM
marcus, the avalanches are terriffic. i was also waiting for mr dale to show up and give us both a pasting, too.
plastic bertrand was from brussels, therefore belgian.
belgium is totally redeemed by nu-beat and R&S records, the french have some wicked music so whoever decided to include them is quite barmy, the welsh have those singing coalminers from the pet shop boys' version of go west, the japanese are fine - plenty of good japanese music, not least the boredoms. no, still scotland for me.

yeah my hearts not in dissing australia really i just don't like delta goodrun and an australian tried to convince me that ltj bukem was from australia .

scotland also has the third ear band and john martyn as a plus
wales are really not doing it with manic street preachers either.

droid
27-04-2005, 10:40 AM
Planxty I'll grant you, and Dylan says Luke Kelly is the best ballad singer he ever heard, but back in the dodgy corner:

Snow patrol, Horslips, David fucking Holmes, Clannad, Fergie and (flourish of trumpets) Enya.

Argh!! Enya!!! I forgot that evil bitch!!


David fucking Holmes

LOL! Thats exactly what I typed at first, but then edited my post for some reason... I think he should just get his middle name changed to 'Fucking'. Everybody I know hates him...

As for Horselips.. the concept and look may have been vile, but they had a few good moments..... did anyone mention the waterboys btw?


Just seen this Droid, after I posted below. The Corrs! Argh. Haven't heard of much of that other stuff, but I've been out of Ireland for a long time.

Are you an ex-pad(dy) then Melmoth?

bassnation
27-04-2005, 11:06 AM
David fucking Holmes

brings to mind that old chestnut of a joke:

whats the difference between god and david holmes? god doesn't walk round thinking hes david holmes!

boom boom!

francesco
27-04-2005, 11:13 AM
Nobody mentioned Italy, and we still have the worst rock groups ever in every parallel universe, but lucky for you non italians you haven't heard them!

martin
27-04-2005, 11:21 AM
Nobody mentioned Italy, and we still have the worst rock groups ever in every parallel universe, but lucky for you non italians you haven't heard them!

Yeah, but you gave us Italo-Disco and "AM FM" by Natasha King. And Maurizio Bianchi, Neon, XX Century Zorro, Rats, Confusional Quartet and Luc Ferrari (unless he was French). And that Italian woman who used to dress like a nazi and mumble over clanking industrial noises

All of which cancels out Nabat

droid
27-04-2005, 11:25 AM
Nobody mentioned Italy, and we still have the worst rock groups ever in every parallel universe, but lucky for you non italians you haven't heard them!

No matter how bad they might be - Goblin makes up for it! Also Bochum Welt...

martin
27-04-2005, 11:34 AM
What about Austria? It's all pub rock and hair metal there, isn't it? Oh, and Hermann Nitsch - great.

droid
27-04-2005, 11:45 AM
What about Austria? It's all pub rock and hair metal there, isn't it? Oh, and Hermann Nitsch - great.


Patrick Pulsinger and Cheap records put out some good stuff down through the years, and I think someone was defending Austria earlier on as well...

Rambler
27-04-2005, 11:50 AM
OK, since when was 'Eastern Europe' a country? ;)

This is a subject close to my heart, so forgive me wading in here, but Hungary, for example, may be a small country (about 10 million people), but it has produced at least two of the most influential composers of the 20th century (Bart&oacute;k and Ligeti); Poland's not far behind (Gorecki, Szymanowski, Penderecki). Even places like Estonia, Lithuania, Georgia and Armenia have made big marks on the classical landscape in the last 20 or 30 years. I can't speak for the pop/rock/etc. in most of these countries though. :)

Chef Napalm
27-04-2005, 12:54 PM
Patrick Pulsinger and Cheap records put out some good stuff down through the years, and I think someone was defending Austria earlier on as well...
Also Klein Records (http://www.kleinrecords.com/website/klein_ie.htm) in Vienna. I love that Princess Him (http://www.kleinrecords.com/website/artists_princesshim.asp) maxi-house sound (http://www.kleinrecords.com/realaudio/princesshim_gone.ram).

hamarplazt
27-04-2005, 02:08 PM
Nobody mentioned Italy, and we still have the worst rock groups ever in every parallel universe, but lucky for you non italians you haven't heard them!
I actually have a lp from an italian rock group called The Birdmen of Alcatraz, and it's bloody brilliant.

egg
27-04-2005, 02:10 PM
OK, since when was 'Eastern Europe' a country? ;)

This is a subject close to my heart, so forgive me wading in here, but Hungary, for example, may be a small country (about 10 million people), but it has produced at least two of the most influential composers of the 20th century (Bart&oacute;k and Ligeti); Poland's not far behind (Gorecki, Szymanowski, Penderecki). Even places like Estonia, Lithuania, Georgia and Armenia have made big marks on the classical landscape in the last 20 or 30 years. I can't speak for the pop/rock/etc. in most of these countries though. :)
Estonia is bloody brilliant. Every year they smack the Eurovision with total genius. Last year a laconic schmindie band singing 'it's the 80's coming back' in classic self-deprecating style; the year before was genius as well.

owen
27-04-2005, 02:21 PM
how about spain and portugal- i can think of verrry little in their defence

having said that a friend from madrid who constantly bemoans the crapness of spanish music did a cd recently with some cool early 80s stuff on...had an AMAZING electro-disco track by none other than Pedro Almodovar (I'm not joking here)

obviously eastern european countries are fine for composers and funny soundtrack music (oh and the music in vera chytilova's 'daisies' is great, anyone know who it's by?) but they never really 'got' pop music, did they....crap dressers too :D

Melmoth
27-04-2005, 02:26 PM
Are you an ex-pad(dy) then Melmoth?

Yeah. Or an im-Mick-grant.

Oh dear

Rambler
27-04-2005, 02:32 PM
Portugal seconded, at least if those ropey promo CDs the Wire give out every 12 months are anything to go by...

bassnation
27-04-2005, 03:28 PM
Yeah. Or an im-Mick-grant.

Oh dear

don't tell me you are in elephant & castle. thats where i am right now, unfortunately stuck in a government office though. christ, its a small world.

Melmoth
27-04-2005, 03:59 PM
don't tell me you are in elephant & castle. thats where i am right now, unfortunately stuck in a government office though. christ, its a small world.

Not at the moment. Thats where I live though. Lovely isn't it?

stevienixed
27-04-2005, 06:29 PM
Someone mentioned Plastic Bertrand being French. He's not actually, he was born in Brussels.

As much as I'd like to nominate Belgium for producing crap music - too much trance and Scala - there's so much goodness being made as well. I mean, Telex! dEUS! Evil Superstars! Lords of Acid! (Shut up, I love it.) Luc Van Acker! Brel... Front 242...

mms
27-04-2005, 07:23 PM
Also Klein Records (http://www.kleinrecords.com/website/klein_ie.htm) in Vienna. I love that Princess Him (http://www.kleinrecords.com/website/artists_princesshim.asp) maxi-house sound (http://www.kleinrecords.com/realaudio/princesshim_gone.ram).


mego are from vienna too as are sabotage, the cleaner more european answer to the klf
http://www.sabotage.at/news.html

they did that spray which was the smell of money etc.

michael
28-04-2005, 03:32 AM
had an AMAZING electro-disco track by none other than Pedro Almodovar (I'm not joking here)

I watched an early Almodovar movie a couple of weeks back (Labyrinths of Passion) and he sings in that. Pretty awesome actually, call and response mutterings & wailings between him and another guy about "gutter love" over 80s disco sounds.

There's a Spanish artist who did quiet electronic stuff along the lines of maybe Seefeel or older Aphex that I really like. Silvania. Meanwhile, Portugal at least has Rafael Toral and Nuno Canavarro.

This seems to be outside the spirit of condemning a nation's "pop" music though, cos it's all a bit noodly.

The Spanish tribute album to Queen I heard was exceptionally horrendous. Particularly the rap/metal cover of 'Bohemian Rhapsody'... "So you think you can stop me, well kiss my aaarse" :D Oh dear.

hauntedbyhorribles
28-04-2005, 05:37 AM
(oh and the music in vera chytilova's 'daisies' is great, anyone know who it's by?)

the daisies soundtrack is by jiri slitr and jiri sust. slitr is a rather famous entertainer, got his start doing the vaudevillesque stage shows czechs love so much.

i heard some pretty decent hip-hop in the czech republic when i was there, not exactly groundbreaking but could probably hold its own with most american backpacker stuff if i knew what the hell they were saying. ditto on whoever brought up bittova, stivin, and liska... might add oldrich janota (http://www.hudba.cx/jmena/janota_e.htm), "sesite" is great.

plastic people of the universe have about two good songs and a whole lotta legend, but it's kinda hard to cut a great record if your band is illegal. i like DG 307 though.

mms
29-04-2005, 08:59 AM
has any music apart from yodelling ever come out of switzerland?

stevienixed
29-04-2005, 11:44 AM
the young gods are swiss...

simon silverdollar
29-04-2005, 12:18 PM
i think lucien nicolet aka lucien n luciano is half swiss.

Pearsall
29-04-2005, 12:34 PM
Miss Kittin is Swiss.

Chef Napalm
29-04-2005, 12:53 PM
has any music apart from yodelling ever come out of switzerland?
As Ness said (http://www.dissensus.com/showpost.php?p=17730&postcount=18), Yello are swiss.

owen
29-04-2005, 08:43 PM
and kleenex/liliput. and die welttraumforscher. switzerland rocks!

greece remains undiscussed here....apart from xenakis and diamanda galas, is it all men with moustaches and bouzoukis? i mean, those 'music of greece' records in charity shops really are dismal.

hamarplazt
29-04-2005, 10:06 PM
and kleenex/liliput. and die welttraumforscher. switzerland rocks!
Yeah, there were also Grauzone. And wasn't Honegger (the composer) swiss too?

Didn't know Weltraumforscher was swiss though, I always thought they were one of thouse odd things from Hamburg...



greece remains undiscussed here....apart from xenakis and diamanda galas, is it all men with moustaches and bouzoukis? i mean, those 'music of greece' records in charity shops really are dismal.
Well... there was Vangelis. A lot of people would probably put him on the minus side. I'm not one of them. Yanni, on the other hand, now that's a minus.

Ness Rowlah
29-04-2005, 11:57 PM
Well... there was Vangelis. A lot of people would probably put him on the minus side. I'm not one of them.

Beauborg and Spiral - good stuff.

egg
30-04-2005, 12:00 AM
i still think this should have won eurovision for greece a couple of years back:

http://rakintzis.com/v4/Discography/Personal-Albums/2002-S.a.g.a.p.o/Audio/01.wma

michael
30-04-2005, 06:04 AM
One of the later Chain Reaction artists was Greek... Hallucinator? Fluxion? He even has a label releasing minimal dub tech whateverness, which may or may not be all Greek (to me ;)).

Melchior
30-04-2005, 08:30 AM
which may or may not be all Greek (to me ;)).

[groan]

soi
17-05-2005, 01:30 PM
o
sorry to revive an old thread but have been in the jungle

thought this might be interesting, I've been listening on shortwave

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/the_music_feature.shtml

"Don't Touch That Dial gives DJs around the world a chance to bring their finest local music to the attention of the WS audience.
...

Mexico, Estonia, Holland, Hong Kong, Bangladesh and Tanzania"

we did Mexico last monday, it was rubbish, but Estonia (yesterday) was much better - Zorg (industrial metal) are hilarious

think you can listen (and rip obv) for another 5-6 days till the next one comes out

looking fwd to tanzania

zhao
17-05-2005, 04:07 PM
traditional bagpipes sound amazing. all sonorous and echoy.

the french have that early 80s electro-punk stuff like Metal-Urbain.

Finland is in eastern-europe, right? one word: Pansonic.

plus there are a shit-load of amazing modern composers from eastern europe. Sarriaho anyone? what about Georgy Ligetti? can't fuck with that shit.

Australia: Severed Heads.

I have this one CD from Korea, of a woman who amplifies traditional instruments, it's some of the most uncompromising brain-melting psych shit ever.

as for Hong Kong... it's more like a city like Las Vegas, so it doesn't count as a country. but I do admit Canto-pop is seriously nauseating.

Taylor Deupree of the micro-click-minimalist label 12K has launched a new sublabel releasing only J-pop. I guess there's really creative stuff within that genre?

AshRa
17-05-2005, 04:36 PM
http://www.bertjansch.com/photogallery/bertj12.jpg

In defence of Scotland...!

hamarplazt
17-05-2005, 07:25 PM
Finland is in eastern-europe, right?
Not really, it's scandinavia. Though eastern scandinavia. In addition to Panasonic you could mention 22 Pistepirkko and composers like Merikanto and Klaami. Sibelius made some good stuff too, even if he also made some crap (well, I suppose Merikanto and Klaami could have made some crap as well, I've only got a couple of records with them).

Ness Rowlah
18-05-2005, 02:23 AM
Finland is in eastern-europe, right?

Not really, it's scandinavia. Though eastern scandinavia.

Wrong again. Scandinavia is Norway, Sweden and Denmark.
Add Finland and Iceland and you get the Nordic countries.

If you ask someone from one of the Nordic countries about what Scandinavia is, then
that's the answer you are likely to get.

I guess the English aversion from using the term "Nordic" has to
do with Nazi-Germany ("Scandinavian" is such a long word
compared to "Nordic", so there must be a reason for the English Scandie-preference?)

The Wikipedia has a nice little piece on Scandinavia and the Nordic countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia).

the linguistic distance between the language families is often seen as indicative of a cultural distance, and a strong reason not to classify the Finns as Scandinavian.

I do not really mind now and I have never heard an English person use the term "Nordic".

OK - time to grab the corduroy jacket (w/elbow-patches).

hamarplazt
18-05-2005, 10:24 AM
Wrong again. Scandinavia is Norway, Sweden and Denmark.
Add Finland and Iceland and you get the Nordic countries.

If you ask someone from one of the Nordic countries about what Scandinavia is, then
that's the answer you are likely to get.

Well, I'm from Denmark, so obviously we can get confused as well. I wasn't really sure which it was, but since I didn't know the english word for "norden", and I didn't have a dictionary with me, so I just hoped the best. In any case, eastern europe it aint.

Backjob
19-05-2005, 04:11 AM
The answer to this, it occurred to me, is clearly

ISRAEL

Power-trance and Dana International. And seder music.

machine hugger
19-05-2005, 04:43 AM
dunno Backjob......from my geography in Cali it seems like loads of folk like Infected Mushroom, at least. They got their moments. Yet that's only one and the most obvious in the blah-yuck of trance.