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Woebot
21-12-2004, 11:59 PM
Here is the second installment of this years Grime CD. Part one (http://www.woebot.com/movabletype/archives/000893.html) looked like this:

Ch Ching: Lady Sovereign
Wonky Vocal: Jookie Mundo
People Don't Know: Donae'O
Bang Bang Bang: Jon E Cash/Black Ops
Lethal: Ruff Squad
S.T.D's: Target feat. Dogzee & Syer
That's Me: Flow Dan
Get Over It: Essentials
Girls get lend, to my friend: God's Gift
Don't Watch Me Though: Donae'O
Top Boy: MC Narstie
Straight Version: God's Gift
Torch: More Fire Crew
Bastard: Wiley
Back To School: Durty Doogz
Chosen One: Riko
Problems: Wiley
War Wid: Footsie & D Double E
Serious Thugs: D Double E & JME
Juggling: Terrah Danjah

--------------------------------------
And here's it's new, tricky to compile, companion (so much to choose from!),

Bruza: Get Me (Aftershock)
Dizzy Rascal: Trapped (XL)
DPM feat Bruza, Napper and Shizzle: Ave Some of That (White)
D Double: Anger Management (White)
Eastwood & Oddz: UR Not Original (A.R.M.Y. Bullett)
Gemma 'The' Fox Feat 2Face: Gone (White)
Guerilla Warfare Feat Swarvo, S.L.K, Rugrat, Musical Mob and Renegade Boys (2 Shoes)
Kano: Mic Check 1,2. (679)
Lethal B: Forward (White)
Ruff Squad: Anna (White)
S.L.K. Feat Wonderkid: Hype Hype (Stick)
Sadie Feat Kano: So Sure (White)
Shola Ama Feat D Double: So Contagious (White)
Ruff Squad Feat Tinchy Stryder: Move (White)
Trim Feat D Double, Wiley, Riko and Footsie: Boogieman (White)
Dizzy Rascal: Untitled (Unknown Genius)
Wiley: Icepole Remix (White)
Wonder Feat Kano: What Have You Done (New Era)

--------------------------------------

That's quite a lot of action since August all told. Huge respect to all the people bringing out records. I reckon putting out a record in itself is a cogent artistic statement, it's a lot more difficult than cobbling together a mix CD, a genuine real-world production hurdle. If you're releasing out records you've definitely got something to say.

On the subject of real world hurdles I was not just distressed but very frustrated to hear that poor old 679 recordings who are putting out the excellent "Run The Road" comp have had their tyres let down by Terrah Danjah who's pulled his tracks because they weren't offering him enough money. This bloody scene needs to get it's records out, or it might as well be Improv. Comps the ilk of which amateur goons like I put together are no substitute for something people can wander into HMV and buy off the shelf. Pull your fucking socks up.

This year was great, and on the basis of the eight or so tracks I wanted to put on here, but which aren't in the shops yet, next year is going to be even better. 5 copies of this are going in the post tomorrow.

My favourite tune of 2004? Gemma Foxs "Gone."

Woebot
22-12-2004, 12:08 AM
Comps the ilk of which amateur goons like I put together are no substitute for something people can wander into HMV and buy off the shelf. Pull your fucking socks up.

It's my drum and i'm effing well going to bang it.

dubplatestyle
22-12-2004, 12:31 AM
i will kindly pay tuesday for a copy of this today. :D

captain easychord
22-12-2004, 02:27 AM
nice job mr. woebot. you hit all of the highlights. :D

Backjob
22-12-2004, 02:57 AM
Question: the Gemma Fox track - my copy of that is on Paperchase with a yellow label and is credited to Gemma Fox and 2Face. Is the Kano one a new version?

Woebot
22-12-2004, 09:47 AM
Question: the Gemma Fox track - my copy of that is on Paperchase with a yellow label and is credited to Gemma Fox and 2Face. Is the Kano one a new version?
(scratches head) I've just got a white so i never worked out who it was. you're almost certainly right backjob. will correct right now!

luka
22-12-2004, 12:02 PM
it's possible he was being offered a risible amount of money matt, allow getting bumped...

soul_pill
22-12-2004, 12:20 PM
...very frustrated to hear that poor old 679 recordings who are putting out the excellent "Run The Road" comp have had their tyres let down by Terrah Danjah who's pulled his tracks because they weren't offering him enough money.

Here lies some of the problem. I often hear the "where are the compilations?" complaint or "what is grime?" (from Americans mainly) and it's the East London MC's (and producer's in this case) insistence to be on a Major with all the trappings (attitude from US hip hop?) - a money thing.

It isn't the labels' fault - I'm sure there are many trying to get comp.s out there, but it isn't economical

The plain fact is that at the moment grime doesn't sell (beyond 200-1000). Even Wiley's album didn't do very well I hear. How can the labels create a market if we can't make it economical for a major (or indie - who would have even less budget probably) to release a comp? The licensing fee Terror Danjah wanted must have been pretty high to be rejected by a major. I would reckon they were probably offering 500 per track (? guess it could have been lower).

This could be one of the reasons that the dubstep scene was licensed for compilations first (rephlex etc) - because of the grime scene's self worth (they are worth a lot - not denying that! Just that a small scene has to be built up, it's not at a level where jungle was in 93 by any means [in thermws of sales]). At least they sell dvds! - cause you can't download them as easily probably).

blissblogger
22-12-2004, 02:36 PM
the shocking truth (which i'm almost inclined to suppress, given that as a journalist i want to convince editors to do pieces on it) is that Grime is pretty unpopular music. Look at Big Apple closing. I was in Blackmarket and Uptown last week, on a Friday --which always used to be when the new tunes came in -- and it weren't exactly pumping in there. The guy in Blackmarket was so pleased i bought five tunes he gave me a discount (maybe he's just a nice guy, seems to be). Maybe Rhythm Division would be more buzzing being right in the heart of the locality. Still the sense i get -- and it's a big difference from the days of UKG and 2step -- is that the audience for grime in large part consists of people who make the music or who are aspiring mcs/producers/djs. they've driven away not just the girls dem but a lot other folk who want to have a good time and go out dancing. Promoters being promoters, if there was a lot of demand out there you could be sure there'd be a helluva lot more Grime raves and grime clubs, even with the trouble factor.

Weirdly, grime corresponds to Chris Cutler's ideal of an "engaged' music subculture where the listeners know how the music is made, are highly-informed etc -- with in his terms Henry Cow-style Eurorock/Recommended post-prog is the model. In other words, grime is a lot closer to the kind of micro-scenes that The Wire covers--noise, improv, psychfolk/Keenan-Dale bizniz- than it is to US hip hop or R&B. I'd always believed in this idea of pirates as a counter-mainstream, broadcasting to a potentially vast audience, but the fact that somethign's on the FM dial doesn't mean that many people actually tune in. the potential for hugeness is there but most folk who accidentally stumble on the grime pirates probably go "eeurgh" and scoot off to Kiss FM. or a 2step-still-lives pirate for that matter. The Grime pirates are closer to audio-zines for a post-literate, oral culture, than they are to broadcasting. For me that's a bit of a head-rearranger.

Re Run the Road, i saw the CDs in Uptown, didn't check the track list -- have they really pulled 'cock back' and the other Danjah tracks? what a pain.

stelfox
22-12-2004, 02:39 PM
damn i hadn't heard about terror danja's decision - what's the source, matt?

stelfox
22-12-2004, 02:40 PM
also i been listening to the 1st woebot comp all weekend and there were 3 tracks i wasn't sure of, so it's a case of serendipity that you posted the tracklist today!

Diggedy Derek
22-12-2004, 02:56 PM
Interesting blissblogger


they've driven away the girls dem

While there's a lot of truth in this, at least on an actual experiencing griminess in the flesh level, girls are lurking on the edges of the scene perpetually. They're texting in left right and centre, lurking on the message boards, making Kano is a hearthrob etc. There are certainly loads of female collaborations happening at the moment- perhaps girls aren't fully into griminess, yet it's a good macho foil for their silky vocals. That Sugababes/Crazy Titch track (you couldn't make it up could you) works because it's so disparate. It's like when hip hop and RnB got together and did the wild thing circa 1995, the females attracted to Notorious BIG for some unfathomable yet (to them) irressitible reason.


narrowcast bizniz innit

Yeah, that's true. There's a paradox because the 1Xtra shows feel pretty big, in terms of "bare texts coming in" etc. etc., yet it loses something that pirates have. Pirate shows have the character they do because miracles/mistakes/general weirdness just goes into the air, it's gone, you can never recapture it (as Eric Dolphy said). It thrives on it's own disposability, the way it almost consumes itself.

blissblogger
22-12-2004, 03:25 PM
>Pirate shows have the character they do because miracles/mistakes/general
>weirdness just goes into >the air, it's gone, you can never recapture it
>(as Eric Dolphy said). It thrives on it's own disposability, the
>way it almost consumes itself.

another comparison with improv then! pure ephemerality, done for love-not-money (pay to play on the pirates), to a small audience of fellow practioners who understand the skill involved.

And of course that's probably what grabbed Derek Bailey when he was listening to the East London pirates, the randomness and chaos as much as the colossal fucked up rhythms

maybe i'm overstating this grime-as-not-even-semipopular it but i'm really enjoying playing in my head with this idea of Grime collaborations -- the 18 MCs on a track syndrome -- as being less like US hip hop (where the "featuring" syndrome is maximum market penetration/introducing upcoming talent/mainstream artists borrowing some street cred inspired) and more like.... the one-off collaborations and fluid, ever-changing line-ups that you see in the world of London Musicians Collective/Incus/BenWatsonia.

in which case some one more freejazz sussed (MC MC are you lurking?) will have to do the grime mc/improv-ster mapping as per:

Dizzee = Derek Bailey

Wiley = Evan Parker

Bruza = Brotzmann


So Solid Crew = People's Band

Pay as U Go = Spontaneous Music Ensemble

i can't think of a good one for D Double E -- someone pretty out


PS was amazed to see that Asher D actually has his autobiography out. Heavily pictorial.

skreeeeeeooooooytttbbbssh
22-12-2004, 09:21 PM
>Pirate shows have the character they do because miracles/mistakes/general
>weirdness just goes into >the air, it's gone, you can never recapture it
>(as Eric Dolphy said). It thrives on it's own disposability, the
>way it almost consumes itself.

another comparison with improv then! pure ephemerality, done for love-not-money (pay to play on the pirates), to a small audience of fellow practioners who understand the skill involved.

And of course that's probably what grabbed Derek Bailey when he was listening to the East London pirates, the randomness and chaos as much as the colossal fucked up rhythms

maybe i'm overstating this grime-as-not-even-semipopular it but i'm really enjoying playing in my head with this idea of Grime collaborations -- the 18 MCs on a track syndrome -- as being less like US hip hop (where the "featuring" syndrome is maximum market penetration/introducing upcoming talent/mainstream artists borrowing some street cred inspired) and more like.... the one-off collaborations and fluid, ever-changing line-ups that you see in the world of London Musicians Collective/Incus/BenWatsonia.

in which case some one more freejazz sussed (MC MC are you lurking?) will have to do the grime mc/improv-ster mapping as per:

Dizzee = Derek Bailey

Wiley = Evan Parker

Bruza = Brotzmann


So Solid Crew = People's Band

Pay as U Go = Spontaneous Music Ensemble

i can't think of a good one for D Double E -- someone pretty out


PS was amazed to see that Asher D actually has his autobiography out. Heavily pictorial.

the ultimate 'feauturing' thing is derek's company week! you get ppl with chops and then they can play with diff people, hole thing takes place over a week, then a record will come out, and the results vary wildly but its the concept people! -- 'taking risks' etc etc.

d double E = John butcher?, but dunno enough abt d dude...Dizzee as someone who has moved on and fallen out with ppl, derek has done similar things, also threw steve beresford on the squares etc. Evan has always stayed with the LMC, wiley always doing stuff for the streets, has had a guru role....anyway, enough of that.

Last couple of months I've really tuned in to pirates a lot more (partly bcz I've had the time for it) and I'd love to see LPs in a 'pirate radio' format? (also another thing with improv => I don't record anything, just tune in, and try and get as much from it as I can, which is what I do whenever I watch improv). I've enjoyed 'showtime' and 'threading on thin ice' but it just doesn't have an unified feel to it, not sure albums work here somehow. I also like a 'mixtape/mix' format.

Matos_W.K.
22-12-2004, 10:51 PM
Matt I will gladly pay you etc. etc. etc.

bun-u
23-12-2004, 12:10 AM
I love 'gone' too...well saying that the first minute is brilliant and then it tales off somewhat - davinchie is producer of the year for me, better than terrah. wobes - may do a comp swap if interested?

I like bilssbloggers' improv comparison too the idea that brilliant random moments are being created every evening on the pirates. 'run the road' is good but I'm sure any of us with tapes and tapes of pirate shows could create a more vital compilation if we could be bothered to source out the special bits

anyone seen the risky roads dvd yet? bleedin long...too long

baboon2004
23-12-2004, 12:43 AM
the shocking truth (which i'm almost inclined to suppress, given that as a journalist i want to convince editors to do pieces on it) is that Grime is pretty unpopular music. Look at Big Apple closing. I was in Blackmarket and Uptown last week, on a Friday --which always used to be when the new tunes came in -- and it weren't exactly pumping in there. The guy in Blackmarket was so pleased i bought five tunes he gave me a discount (maybe he's just a nice guy, seems to be). Maybe Rhythm Division would be more buzzing being right in the heart of the locality. Still the sense i get -- and it's a big difference from the days of UKG and 2step -- is that the audience for grime in large part consists of people who make the music or who are aspiring mcs/producers/djs. they've driven away not just the girls dem but a lot other folk who want to have a good time and go out dancing. Promoters being promoters, if there was a lot of demand out there you could be sure there'd be a helluva lot more Grime raves and grime clubs, even with the trouble factor.

Sad but seemingly true - Dizzee's breakthrough doesn't seem to have carried through the rest of the scene at all, and 'grime' as a concept hasn't captured the public imagination in at all the same way as 'rave', 'jungle', 'drum n bass' or 'UK garage'. In fact, is this the lowest commercial ebb that the hardcore/pirate radio continuum has been at since before acid house? Must be.

And if so, will it recover? Seems odd to think that the whole 14 years from around 1988-2002 (counting So Solid/More Fire's 'Oi' as the last time the pirate radio 'scene' hit public consciousness, whereas the average person seems to see Dizzee Rascal as a product of the hip-hop scene) could itself be a phase.

Backjob
23-12-2004, 02:35 AM
Yeh, but you can't ignore that this cd dynamic thing cuts both ways. Grime hasn't had a CHANCE to become popular because your average punter in birmingham can't either buy it in the shops or hear it on the radio.

Tracks like "gone" or "jenny" or "boogeyman" not to mention "pow" have as much commercial potential as "terminator" or "some justice" ever did, I mean come on!

The fact that I can talk to some random punter in oz or singapore and have them not only have heard of grime but know who terra danjah or tinchy stryder are is pretty significant! The reason it's bloggers and digerati who're bigging up this scene and the reason it's so global is that it's only people with broadband who have any real access to it...

craner
23-12-2004, 03:26 AM
I have to admit, I'm one of those people who listens to a grime show for ten minutes, gets a strange rattle in the ear, and heads for the '2 step still lives' stations...

having said that, I notice that the divine Shola Ama appears on your list, Matt. That can only be good, right?

baboon2004
23-12-2004, 11:27 AM
Yeh, but you can't ignore that this cd dynamic thing cuts both ways. Grime hasn't had a CHANCE to become popular because your average punter in birmingham can't either buy it in the shops or hear it on the radio.

Tracks like "gone" or "jenny" or "boogeyman" not to mention "pow" have as much commercial potential as "terminator" or "some justice" ever did, I mean come on!

The fact that I can talk to some random punter in oz or singapore and have them not only have heard of grime but know who terra danjah or tinchy stryder are is pretty significant! The reason it's bloggers and digerati who're bigging up this scene and the reason it's so global is that it's only people with broadband who have any real access to it...

I would say 'Fwd' and 'So Sure' have a good chance with the public at large, but a lot of people find the whole sound of grime a bit alienating.

I don't know who the random punters you talk to are, but I've barely met anyone who has heard of any grime whatsoever (barring Dizzee). And the lack of radio exposure is a reason, but no more of an obstacle than it would have been to drum n bass or UK garage, which both obviously crossed over in a big way.

luka
23-12-2004, 11:47 AM
as i was reading this thread a car pulled up to the lights outside my window blaring
'stand up tall'
a minor coincidence, but i thought i'd mention it.

Pearsall
23-12-2004, 04:08 PM
I'm in London now (fun fact) and when I went to my friend's house in Haringey last night some kid rode by on a bike shouting the chorus to 'P's and Q's'.

I think the reason it hasn't crossed over can be traced to a couple reasons. The biggest is probably that the core fan base is less likely to buy it than they were jungle, because of being able to download it (consider how many topics on RWD have people saying they don't want to spend their money on buying something when they could just download it, asking for audio and shit). Some of the biggest jungle records would do tens of thousands of sales just off 12 inch. Can't see that happening now.

Two, lack of vibesiness/danceability. In jungle's biggest period there were plenty of dark tearouts but there were lighter/more melodic moments (Foul Play rmx of Renegade Snares, Pulp Fiction, Chopper, etc) but grime has mostly been dark n' nasty (starting to change now though). Plus, it's way harder to dance to than breakbeat hardcore, jungle, or 2-step. Jungle didn't start to really die off until it turned into angst-metal breakbeat.

Three, and let's be honest here, a lot of the mc's are still pretty bad. The standard has improved by light years since So Solid, but lyrically there's still lots of lame stuff.

Diggedy Derek
23-12-2004, 04:15 PM
Haringay! Representing. The 29 bus which I go home on is a veritable hot bed of grime lingo- girls talking about Kano and his "ugly mate", crews talking about sending dubplates to Ruff Squad.

It's everywhere, in the air, you can feel it.

luka
23-12-2004, 04:19 PM
the average age of the audience doesn't help either. not much disposable income when you're 14!

owen
23-12-2004, 04:35 PM
heh for some reason buses are the main places i hear grime lyrics being quoted and the like, in fact its the main sign of its existence, at least out here in the SE.
(my favourite of the latter being a girl on the 47 going 'I hate boyfriends, like BOY them, I'll BOY them! that's what kano says, innit' to her mate)
other than that it's probably a distant seventh most heard thing after dancehall, hip hop, r&b, old 2-step, magic fm and african pop. it really spooked me first hearing 'i luv u', mainly cos despite it being from 2 miles north of me i heard NOTHING like it on the streets (as it were).
it still seems to have very little presence blasting from cars, shops and whatnot, despite what people have mentioned here

Diggedy Derek
23-12-2004, 04:38 PM
Yeah, for some reason what I hear on car stereos is always ragga. Playing 2-step in public seems to be taboo, as if it's a secret little pleasure reserved for when you're at home with your missus. On road, though, people pump the militant ragga sound.

luka
23-12-2004, 04:39 PM
south london is another country sunshine!

no disrespect to south, i was in kenington the other night. ok, the takeaway i got there give me food poisoning but i love the south. it is another country though.

in newham and tower hamlets grime is omnipresent. everywhere else its borderline invisible.

luka
23-12-2004, 04:43 PM
i never hear it coming out of cars though, i do wonder about that as i divide my time between stratford and bethnal greeen.

there's two main reasons you don't hear it coming out of cars i think
1)the audience is mostly too young to have a legitimate license and too poor to have a car
2)when you're underage and driving a stolen car you dont want to draw attention t yourself by blastig out music associated with violent teenage criminal,s.

Pearsall
23-12-2004, 08:26 PM
Haringay! Representing. The 29 bus which I go home on is a veritable hot bed of grime lingo- girls talking about Kano and his "ugly mate", crews talking about sending dubplates to Ruff Squad.


Heh, I took the N29 home last night and there were two little kids doing grime-style mc'ing at the front. they were pretty terrible but in fairness they were only about eleven.

mms
24-12-2004, 11:30 AM
damn i hadn't heard about terror danja's decision - what's the source, matt?


i read it in vice linked off somewhere online, the geezer that writes the garage column should know as it's dan stacey from 679 recordings writing under a pseudonom.

it seems there are several faultlines in grimes' struggle, wanting the best deal and nothing else and the possibility of real destructive violence are 2 of the big uns.
seems to be a big gap between the value grimes audience places on its artists product (in actually shelling out for their records ) and their respect for them, but then again alot of the audience is struggling to get up there and on top as well, shame there is no real top, Dizzie seems to be a anomaly in a way. it's all oddly locked to fail unless it changes up its view of itself.

the records are 7 a pop too, that's a hell of alot of money, i can't afford to shell out for them that often.

diggedy d :Haringay! Representing. The 29 bus which I go home on is a veritable hot bed of grime lingo- giIt's everywhere, in the air, you can feel it.


this is absolutley true.
i absolutley love the kids that start mcing or girls that start singing thing.
i saw this kid just mcing away in his school uniform on the tube recently, 1000 yard stare on his face, deadly serious, running the voodoo of a miserable day at school down, he didn't care that some people thought he was plain odd.
One of the most lovely things i saw was when i walked into a sports shop in wood green and almost the whole shop was singing along to some r and b tune. gorgeous.

Ach!
27-12-2004, 11:01 PM
The N279 is North London's real gangsta night bus, standard.

mpc
27-12-2004, 11:15 PM
hold tight the N20.

3 hour wait.

Logan Sama
29-12-2004, 11:44 PM
The promo of Run The Roads I was sent included Da Rush, which Big E D informed me would not be featuring on the cd....

Logan Sama Bonus Vol 2 will HOPEFULLY be out Jan 10th. Was put back because now it;s going to be 2 cds.

And it's still free.

chrishumpy
21-10-2008, 08:59 PM
i would also pay for this cd and the logan one above

gumdrops
21-10-2008, 09:30 PM
if anyone wants to trade copies of either of these 04 grime comps of woebots for any of his others (noir desire or grime 05 the evidence) i would be more than happy to trade.

slackk
21-10-2008, 10:31 PM
Surreal. I was coming here specifically to request this (or any other woebot comp).
Those grimeforum crossover moments.

chrishumpy
21-10-2008, 10:45 PM
I'm Randy slackk. ;)

slackk
21-10-2008, 11:32 PM
lol.
hello mr marsh.

onetone
22-10-2008, 12:13 PM
I'm Randy slackk. ;)

Read that with the wrong idea and that should warrant a no homo.

slackk
22-10-2008, 12:20 PM
If I'd have made that post it would have got one.

chrishumpy
22-10-2008, 06:30 PM
I made sure I used a capital R so as not to arouse suspicion.

mos dan
22-10-2008, 10:10 PM
if everyone could stop talking about how randy and aroused they are and up those cds that would be great. arf arf.

by the by, why would ppl be giving money to woebot for those cds? he's only compiled them, presumably? sorry i only skimmed this thread.