UK EU Referendum Thoughts

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baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
I don't follow the media in the uk, what exactly did Corbyn do to stop all of this? Did he DO anything or just sit around while the other guys did all the talking or got all the attention?

What's your investment in it, if you (a) don't follow the media in the UK, yet (b) quite clearly have a preconceived opinion regarding the answer to your question (i.e. 'nothing')? A bizarre question all in all.

What is more than clear is that the Blairites have been rubbing their hands and waiting for this opportunity to get rid of Corbyn, and now they have it. Great. Johnson vs A Blairite in the next election, with Farage no doubt hoovering up yet more votes around the margins. What a future.
 
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droid

Well-known member
70% of Labour voters went remain compared to 46% of Tories.

Its utterly perverse to blame Corbyn for the disastrous outcome of Tory infighting.
 

droid

Well-known member
What's your investment in it, if you (a) don't follow the media in the UK, yet (b) quite clearly have a preconceived opinion regarding the answer to your question (i.e. 'nothing')? A bizarre question all in all.

What is more than clear is that the Blairites have been rubbing their hands and waiting for this opportunity to get rid of Corbyn, and now they have it. Great. Johnson vs A Blairite in the next election, with Farage no doubt hoovering up yet more votes around the margins. What a future.

Election in the spring with regretful leave voters staring the abyss in the face may be a great thing for Corbyn's prospects, if he survives - which I think he will.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Totally agreed on the first point - what the hell was he supposed to do anyways? He gave measured arguments as to why Britain should stay, without ever hiding his own personal conflict on the issue.

Second point - I was saying a similar thing this afternoon, that this vote is just the start of the real battle, so I think I've just lapsed into an understandably maudlin state now the sun has gone down...
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I'm not sure there's an easy answer to that although I know you think it can be answered in one word, ie, immigration

Well that's a big part of it and can't be ignored, but an even bigger aspect is the way the establishment media - or most of it - has become so adept at persuading people who have a little, and fear losing that, that their main threat comes from people who have even less, rather than from those who own almost everything. Which of course means immigrants more often than other identifiable group.

So yeah, while immigration is objectively a big issue, the shadow it casts in the public imagination is blown out of proportion all the same.
 
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sadmanbarty

Well-known member
I don't follow the media in the uk, what exactly did Corbyn do to stop all of this? Did he DO anything or just sit around while the other guys did all the talking or got all the attention?

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. He flip-flopped on his position in the initial stages of the campaign. Once he did decide to join Remain he wasn't a particularly prominent voice (whether that was his own choice or because he was considered a liability, I don’t know). He gave an interview in which he said he was only 70%-75% in favour of staying in Europe.

One reason he may not of wanted to associate himself or Labour too much with Remain is because of what happened in Scotland. Labour was decimated in Scotland by the independence party in the last election. Corbyn may have thought that Labour would lose in the Euro-skeptic, white, working-class areas of North England and Wales if it was associated too closely with Remain.

Most Labour MP’s are more centrist than he is and have been trying to get rid of him ever since he got in and this is their chance to do so.

I’d been willing to remain neutral on Corbyn until there were some concrete policy proposals. However, given his lacklustre campaigning, I’d be glad to see him go.
 

droid

Well-known member
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rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
So yeah, while immigration is objectively a big issue, the shadow it casts in the public imagination is blown out of proportion all the same.

whether the leavers - and the media, who relish anything to do with immigration and report with no responsibility - simply manipulated, exacerbated, and exploited feelings and fears around immigration, this is what, from the looks of things, is what won it. im not even sure if you can say its merely 'objectively' a big issue. it was THE issue. and a highly emotional issue. its because it is such an emotional issue and not treated as an objective one that it proved so succesful. people seem to like denying its centrality, the same way many media reports seemed reluctant to pass judgement on what motivated jo cox's killer. they dont like what it might suggest.

obv you have to unpack 'immigration' and what people mean by it, its just an abstract blame target for a whole host of problems theyre facing. but the campaign became more or less a battle between people wanting to support cosmopolitan global (or continental at least) capitalism, and people edging towards right wing nationalism.

im still a corbyn supporter but he wasnt nearly focused, organised, or passionate enough for the job. he might have been honest about being conflicted, but sorry, exhibiting conflict is not going to win labour any votes. its one thing not sounding like another slick factory-made political professional, and he had his work cut out for him - could anyone really win in this current climate? against farrage? - but he didnt even sound like he was bothered. hes like a depressed sixth form sociology tutor. makes you wonder if he really wants his job or not. its like hes as down as anyone else about the political system and sees no sign of hope himself.

at this point though i think labour is almost beyond hope. the country is happy to let tories run it, and happy to believe that boris a) cares about the eu b) cares about social justice. so the next election, will be won by the tories again. labour seems to not care about anything but fighting each other. the tories are the same but at least they can somehow galvanise support. the only decent alternative will have to come from outside both. labour isnt worth resting any hopes on, unless you are just happy with a party sat opposite the tories to present an alternative ideology, but who have no chance of doing anything with it.
 
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