vimothy
yurp
I don't assume that volition is a property which only humans possessI mean that an increase in complexity seemingly begat first life and then free-will.
I don't assume that volition is a property which only humans possessI mean that an increase in complexity seemingly begat first life and then free-will.
What do you have in mind when you consider volition? I think that might be a point of miscommunication here, because I really don't think we disagree as much as it may appear. Also largely due to my inability to identify where I am provisionally planting my feet, thus rendering my presuppositions somewhat invisible.I don't assume that volition is a property which only humans possess
Would you consider "upward" ramification from the atomic/subatomic scale into the mind "external"? I can see where one can go either way there. Like are the roots external to the blossom.the ability to make decisions without some kind of external influence. "will", in other words. precisely what an AI can never achieve, no matter how complex its programming
Yeah that was what I was trying to clarify a few posts up, that I'm deferring to the language of functions and programming as a means of finding some rough sketch/approximation of how to understand a materialist cosmology. I'd agree, in that I don't think the universe has some distinct foundational set of functions that we would be able to equate with our mathematic. At least, I would be surprised if that was the case.free-will could be an extra layer. I'm just talking about will in general. there is no material or mathematical explanation for the emergence of volition. obviously it arose from somewhere, but not from mathematical functions operating at a sufficient level of complexity
ok but in order to programme an AI, you will need to take advantage of this language of programming. if an AI cannot be programmed "mathematically", then an AI cannot be createdYeah that was what I was trying to clarify a few posts up, that I'm deferring to the language of functions and programming as a means of finding some rough sketch/approximation of how to understand a materialist cosmology. I'd agree, in that I don't think the universe has some distinct foundational set of functions that we would be able to equate with our mathematic. At least, I would be surprised if that was the case.
But then again, it would then make sense as to why mathematics emerged within the human mind to begin with - because the human mind was predisposed in that direction. But that is an argument working against whatever kind of momentum I'm trying to establish. Not that its a bad argument.
I don't think I'd disagree with this, but I would argue that a kind of metaphysically truistic approach might be necessary when we go beyond the jurisdiction of today's science, no? That is, where there isn't any evidence to be found, you employ these kind of metaphysical/theological self-affirming theories as a placeholder for eventual evidence. Provisional and adaptive placeholders, ideally, rather than letting it ossify into dogma.youre just presupposing a material explanation which does not exist, and then banking on that
Yeah I could be beating a dead horse here, and perhaps you already got my message, but another way of saying it just occured. I think I'm going about cognizing a materialist cosmology in a manner similar to cognizing how AI would be programmed. I see a lot of abstract overlap.ok but in order to programme an AI, you will need to take advantage of this language of programming. if an AI cannot be programmed "mathematically", then an AI cannot be created
I don't think I follow.the dogma is generally working in the opposite direction, AFAICS
Qui-Gon was Obi-Wan's master then Obi-Wan was Anakin's master then Obi-Wan was Luke's master. Qui-Gon died too early to really teach Anakin much.or is it qui gong jinn and anakin?
But I think it probably did arise from complexity.free-will could be an extra layer. I'm just talking about will in general. there is no material or mathematical explanation for the emergence of volition. obviously it arose from somewhere, but not from mathematical functions operating at a sufficient level of complexity