algorithmic indie

[padraig (u.s.)]

This is like asking if you'd rather spend 24 consecutive hours listening to post-grunge or Britpop. The correct answer is just "no".

 

[sus]

I did not know that, thanks for the correction

I love how the biggest fascist dickwad in the world could announce they're a woman now and Padraig would start apologizing to them and be like, "look, I respect her choice," I find this very funny

 

[sus]

Look I get the meta principle where do you draw the line it's their decision not mine etcetera etcetera but it is still objectively hilarious

 

[sus]

"Everything they say is complete bullshit BUT"

 

[sus]

It's fine it's good gender is really silly don't be a cop don't keep people locked in boxes I'm with it, very supportive of not locking people up

 

[sus]

But it's still rly funny

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I love how the biggest fascist dickwad in the world could announce they're a woman now and Padraig would start apologizing to them and be like, "look, I respect her choice," I find this very funny

You're wrong. I wouldn't misgender them but I also wouldn't make a production out of apologizing. The most important fact about a fascist is that they're a fascist.

And obv this is a very stupid reductio ad absurdum. From someone who is, btw, like beiser, super goddamn weird about trans ppl. U think I don't see u forever only quoting Andrea Long Chu as some lone iconoclast against some supposed trans ideological orthodoxy? Do u actually know and regularly interact w/any trans, nb, etc folx and listen to them talk about their actual day to day lives? Do u ever support marginalized ppl when they're trying to find housing or pay for validating surgeries? Or do u sit in yr fucking tech bro bubble and pontificate? GTFOH u smug prick

Pick better fights and do a better job of fighting them

 

[sus]

You're wrong. I wouldn't misgender them but I also wouldn't make a production out of apologizing. The most important fact about a fascist is that they're a fascist.

And obv this is a very stupid reductio ad absurdum. From someone who is, btw, like beiser, super goddamn weird about trans ppl. U think I don't see u forever only quoting Andrea Long Chu as some lone iconoclast against some supposed trans ideological orthodoxy?

What? With the exception of a recent Otessa Moshfegh review (which was about obesity and not transness, if we're playing idpol games) I literally haven't read or thought about Andrea Long Chu for years. The fact that you keep tabs on/dedicate mental bandwidth to people who were present on this forum for a few weeks max, and deleted their accounts literally years ago, is the only thing that's "super goddam weird" here.

Also, your "super goddam weird about trans people" just means that I'm able to simultaneously (1) believe we should be respectful and kind to people, and that sex/gender categories can be oppressive, and to have basic empathy for people who want to escape them, rather than being cops for the hegemonic order, while (2) also believing that personal phenomenology isn't a scientific or even social-theoretic authority, that sex & gender are super fucking complicated and spooky and we've been arguing about them for ages, and only 20 years ago it was the standard progressive line to say gender was this full-bore Butlerian construction and nowadays it's a standard progressive line to say trans people are "essentially, deep down"—sometimes even "biologically" the sex/gender identity they claim for themselves. (Yes, I'm blurring s/g; so does the discourse; it's completely incoherent because again, these issues are super fucking complicated and anyone schilling a simple answer is a grifter or a fool.) Judith Butler is literally rolling in her discursive grave and suddenly I'm conservative for thinking she had a point. Whatever, dude.

Do u actually know and regularly interact w/any trans, nb, etc folx and listen to them talk about their actual day to day lives? Do u ever support marginalized ppl when they're trying to find housing or pay for validating surgeries? Or do u sit in yr fucking tech bro bubble and pontificate? GTFOH u smug prick

I'd pull out the "Literally half a dozen friends of mine are trans" line but you'd find a way to turn that into a "My best friends are black!" schtick too, there's literally no way to win against whatever rabid ideology inhabits you, which would rather police people than search for reason, rather put people into categories than talk to them like humans.

Also, because you live in a fucking BUBBLE, there is enormous dissent WITHIN trans communities about what gender/sex are, how they operate, the epistemic/ontological status of their pronoun claims, etc. My "tech bro bubble" is WAY over-represented trans/nb identities, by 1-2 orders of magnitude lmfao. And many of them are neo-monarchist femboys, or gender nihilists, or boring anti-woke Red Scare fans. Perhaps your exposure to the "trans" issue is watching Joe Biden & Anderson Cooper monologues, so you're not aware of the actual, incredible ideological and political diversity within the trans movement. I guess you just assume they're a buncha socjus wokies who show up for weekly DSA meets—AKA making the classic Democrat mistake of lumping marginalized identities together as homogenous units, then assuming they'll all turn up to vote for you "because."

Pick better fights and do a better job of fighting them

I wasn't picking a fight, I was teasing you, there's a world of difference. Now that you've been destroyed, I assume you'll retract the latter comment, though.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Perhaps your exposure to the "trans" issue is watching Joe Biden & Anderson Cooper monologues, so you're not aware of the actual, incredible ideological and political diversity within the trans movement. I guess you just assume they're a buncha socjus wokies who show up for weekly DSA meets—AKA making the classic Democrat mistake of lumping marginalized identities together as homogenous units, then assuming they'll all turn up to vote for you "because."

no, it actually comes from many years of having trans, nb, gender-fluid etc folks as coworkers, friends, and romantic/sexual partners. most of whom do not have, like your various coworkers etc, tech $ or some equivalent to insulate them from the harshest realities of marginalization. I do, before say anything, also know trans etc folk in tech, including but not limited to instructors and classmates at the bootcamp I just did. and many of the other communities that exist both online and irl. the very last thing I want do is to get into a dick size contest with another cis man - especially one as deeply ignorant and (undeservedly) arrogant as you - about "who knows trans communities better" but factually, I have zero doubt that I do. without trying to speak for any of them, I am well aware of the diversity of views about sex and gender and fucking epistemology. how could I not be? people I care about live all those things every day - their actual lives, not some academic debate. and while my contributions are extremely insignifcant compared to people's struggles to become themselves, be happy, and survive doing it, I have done all the things I've mentioned. so yeah, I think I have a better idea than you do.

if you knew literally anything about me at all, you'd know fucking I hate the Democratic Party, especially its corporate wing as exemplified by Biden, almost as much as I hate the Republicans, and that I loathe the pundit class, including and maybe especially the rich liberal self-satisfaction of Cooper/Maddow/et al, even more. but you don't know anything about me at all. you've never known a single thing about me in however many years you've been here and yet you always - always - feel totally free to assign me a slew of beliefs I don't hold, have never held, and often, as in this case, actively despise. I realize that building giant strawmen is your only method of argument, but if you're going to make shit up try to at least make it views the person might feasibly hold. the last thing I believe is that people are blocs, you clueless fool. I came of age in the anarchist tradition, fairly seriously, and I'm not going to pretend I've held on to all of it but I will always, always believe - unlike you and the dystopian tech lords u generally fanboi - in the capability of individuals to make decisions about their own lives.

of course 1) sex/gender are super complicated and 2) everyone should attempt to respect other people's identities,which is not only about being "respectful and kind" but also yunno, ethics. do u really think I walk around telling anyone that bc of their gender identity they should have x politics? ofc I fucking don't. I tell people their politics are bad b/c their politics are bad. I would bitterly oppose a trans fascist while calling them by their preferred pronoun. opposing fascism and making the minimal effort required to respect people's identities are not that hard to do at the same time, and they're both the most basic kind of human decency.

and just for the record, let's be clear that your how did you put it, all-caps BUBBLE in tech shows u a side of the trans etc community that is on aggregate much further right - or anti-woke - than it is outside of tech. neomonarchists etc are a tech thing, not a trans tech thing specifically. there are definitely trans Trump voters - I've met some - but it's pretty goddamn rare on the whole. is there a great diversity of opinion about many things? of course. that is the case in literally every type of human community. queer people usually don't vote for Republicans bc as bad as the Democrats are on many (so many) things, they don't generally yunno, promote bills that are essentially guaranteed to make more queer teenagers commit suicide by muzzling public discussion of sexuality and gender identity just when those kids need it most, and absurd scaremongering bathroom bills, and etc. If one party was generally devoted to wishing you out of existence/using you as a wedge issue to mobilize its base, you probably wouldn't vote for that party. gus knows some of this but willfully ignores, the rest he is genuinely ignorant of.

I stick by everything I said. you fucking suck at picking fights, you fucking suck at arguing, and you're a smug, supercilious little prick.

@sufi and other, mods, you have my apologies, but I cannot sit here and let this person spout absolute nonsense unchecked

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

let's all take a second and appreciate how funny and cool @suspended's original joke was

"omg yall what if Hitler was a woman, he'd be all Ms. Hitler I oppose your concentration camps but I'm sorry for misgendering you haha omg that would be so goddamn funny"

just really top-notch, classy material. so edgy. I'm sure it will slay at the next kool krypto meetup in the Algarve or whatever.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

tldr if u don't want go thru entire post above

the difference between me and gus in re fascism is this:

I'd try to correctly gender a fascist while fighting against everything else they stood for

gus would happily take fascist VC $$$ with zero qualms. he'd stoop down to pick it up if Peter Thiel threw it in the street.

 

[sus]

you don't know anything about me at all. you've never known a single thing about me in however many years you've been here and yet you always - always - feel totally free to assign me a slew of beliefs I don't hold, have never held, and often, as in this case, actively despise. I realize that building giant strawmen is your only method of argument, but if you're going to make shit up try to at least make it views the person might feasibly hold

Thousands of words of pure projection and misdirected vitriol that miss everything I said while claiming to be misunderstood... Sad! You live in musty lefty communities that role-play like it's 1942; I live in weird mixed politically eccentric communities trying to generate new paradigms, literally who gives a shit. Whether or not you "want to get in a dick measuring contest with me," it's what you instigated (in your first post) and then doubled down (in subsequent ones). Then you say edgy with italics like you're slaying Wburg hipsters in 08. Ask for the check and show yourself out, thanks

 

[pattycakes_]

Jfc @suspended. Long way to go for you, lad.

 

[pattycakes_]

I can smell the little adrenaline rush you get as you hit post reply

 

[sus]

Oh it's a nitpick but the "tech" circles I hang in, insofar as they can politically be reduced, are libertarian, with as many anarchist sympathies as 'fascist' ones lol. They believe in right to suicide, antinatalism, end of drug prohibition, decentralization, self-determination, experimentation, non-coercion etc. I say this not because you should know "my" scene but because as soon as SSC got linked it became obvious and you missed the plot. At least understand your enemy subculture a bit better.

 

[pattycakes_]

 

[sus]

I am not libertarian, also FWIW

 

[sus]

I can smell the little adrenaline rush you get as you hit post reply

Yes, this is all just WWE, body slams and barbed wire. Taking it as any more would be silly. Live for the blood or find a more constructive outlet for your libido

 

[pattycakes_]

@sufi can you autoimpose avatars?

 

[thirdform]

was gonna engage in a discussion with gus about whether this is the hipster adele but he's really made a colossal tit of himself here ain't he?

New paradigms, which harken back to 1870 and are often the same kind of philistine objections, capitulations to reformism and always start off deviating in the same old way, objecting to dogma! well, bon appetit!

Bit like Derrick May calling himself the innovator even though he still plays Donna Summer I feel Love in practically every set, well fucking innovative. No disrespect to moroder/summer obvs. plenty of low key detroit techno producers who have been labelled as minorities and not so influential have innovated more than the mythical belleville three (and Mayday who hasn't made a record since 1990) but anyway...

So is this hipster indie Adele?