DUBSTEP- breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc

gek-opel said:

Isn't the whole point that it is head (and body) jarring tho? If anything it could stand to be a bit more head-jarring.

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more of anything
i listened to blood on my hands again today, its a goodminimalhousetrak with dub step elements, big b line and off beat drums , it's great but i can see why cassie opened with it on er mix.

the optimum is two conservative genres colllide to create something exciting and resonant.

this cat is outta the bag so i can mention it here now

Wicked Sway said:

We have a Parson 12 lined up on Dubline featuring a Distance remix. Details soon to follow. 8)

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breaking news, gossip, slander or lies, you decide :slanted:

i'm stoked anyway

is there a release date yet for deep medi 004 (mala 'changes'/'forgive')?

with all the talk of minimal/dubstep crossover and dubstep squat parties etc, are any of my comments about dubstep at certain ends of the spectrum basically turning into reggae-inflected techno with a few beats missing in any way vindicated? not trying to start a scrap or anything, but i'm feeling a bit less of a contrarian at the moment and like i might just have been onto something.

stelfox said:

dubstep at certain ends of the spectrum basically turning into reggae-inflected techno with a few beats missing

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i don't think anything fits that description yet, but i'm sure it could happen. the minimal thing really is more of an idea than a reality right now. peverelist might have the most techno feel at the moment but there are no tacked on reggae bits. and mala's doing stuff that's very kicky but generally not proper 4x4 and so sonically different from most techno that i don't think it qualifies. he has a new one called unexpected (http://www.myspace.com/malamystikz) which could be criticized for being polite but i think it's quite refreshing given the amount of straight, faux evil drivel that we've seen in the last year (signed and unsigned).

i think pinch's mix of lighthouse dub comes quite close to that description. i dont feel that that phrasing gives it enough credit though... i dont think feel that its any less innovative or interesting for that angle... i missed the earlier discussion though so dont fully know the assumptions/claims

i dont like the 'with a few beats missing' bit mainly

really let down by that sleeparchive dubstep stuff.... really wack.

nomos said:

i think it's quite refreshing given the amount of straight, faux evil drivel that we've seen in the last year (signed and unsigned).

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The hilarious thing is how un-evil, how utterly, laughably silly, a lot of this stuff actually sounds. I've zero issue with genuinely evil sounding music (maybe distance gets closest to this in dubstep with his metallic atmospherics) but wobblestep is totally, utterly lame... Coki style riff-step just sound like the kind of music an angry toddler would make...

lazybones said:

really let down by that sleeparchive dubstep stuff.... really wack.

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hes hugely overated anyway that guy.

the over dark 'i'm so evil' angle does my nut in.

why i got hooked into dubstep is that around 2000 d&b took this route with Bad Company n co, whereas El-B & Ghost's darkness was more a tempered 'edgy'.

the lack of melodic components - edgy, near dissonant, or straight warm - is a real issue for me right now.

this is what makes that new Skream bit (2D i think? the one Plastician has VIP'd) so wonderful for me. its so joyous, so full of melody and colour. love it. funny, first time i heard it i assumed it was by a grime producer. sounds quite like joker's stuff

its just about a little dash of melody or colour, it takes very little to make a lot, but i guess a lot of the producers just dont see it as desirable :/ too many drones and dull industrial textures. but as long as im selective with where i go and who i hear, i figure whatever

the new skulldisco 06 is absolutely fantastic, one of the best dubstep records in ages...very close to what Dave is talking about, but rises above the trap with colour and rhythm, but i can see lots of poor imitations in its wake with shit rasta samples, which these tracks mercifully miss out.
skulldisco is pretty much up there next to dmz and hyperdub now. everyone else isn't really touching.

yeah, i'm not saying anything bad about this possible direction, although i am less than excited by the villalobos thing and don't really think that mixing minimal with dubstep is a great, groundbreaking move.
in fact, i'd say that it's a really backward step, redolent of dubstep getting all tasteful and accepted by "the people who know about music", rather than being a street thing any more.
certainly, the audiences for both genres are not that different any more, whereas they really used to be.
that's sort of where i liked it, plus i like vocals and music with people in it, not faux-edgy, droney machine music. that's why i prefer song-form reggae to dub every time.
anyway, i think the person who wrote this utterly spasticated review at turntable lab is is a pretty good example of the sort of audience i'm talking about...
i'd like to hear that skulldisco record, actually. you're not the first person i've heard saying this, marcus.

yeh i can understand that, given your apparent tastes. though i would say that there is a lot more to 'minimal' (indeed techno in a broader sense, which seems often to be forgotten in the discussion of dubstep's expansion) than it being simply faux-edgy droney machine music. i guess it often has different aspirations, and results, to most 'street' music, but those for me present an exciting new direction for dubstep (given my own subjective preferences). but i dont feel that techno should so often swept away as being necessarily escapist/introspective or whatever. agreed, a great deal of todays most prominent techno is, but it seems far from intrinsic. i listen to the gritty 808s and 909s of detroit and it seems like a very different thing to me. likewise re class/type (ppl who know about music) - thats not what techno is supposed to be about in my eyes, its the same as most dance music - to make people move, to unify, to evoke, regardless of 'knowledge'. but i guess maybe the clientele of most minimal raves is sadly not what i would wish

a further point, i dislike the idea of a genre being necessarily unified in a recognisable body - i like the idea of individuals and collectives working within a similar 'space' (raves, radio, labels, listeners) but towards different goals and with different results. i'd hate to see all of dubstep shift towards techno, but i cant see that happening really

but the 'street' thing is a problem as an ideal. that was part of eshun's point, that the 'street' always leads us to a notion of authenticity that equals black and/or working class while 'not street' = empty, bourgeois, white.

like i've said before, i don't really know much about minimal or any other current brand of techno, but given how dire a future dubstep seemed to me to have for most of the last year, i'm thrilled to hear new sounds and new rhythms coming from unexpected places. and maybe it needs a bit of rinsing out right now to clear out the sludge.

stelfox said:

yeah, i'm not saying anything bad about this possible direction, although i am less than excited by the villalobos thing and don't really think that mixing minimal with dubstep is a great, groundbreaking move.
in fact, i'd say that it's a really backward step, redolent of dubstep getting all tasteful and accepted by "the people who know about music", rather than being a street thing any more.
certainly, the audiences for both genres are not that different any more, whereas they really used to be.
that's sort of where i liked it, plus i like vocals and music with people in it, not faux-edgy, droney machine music. that's why i prefer song-form reggae to dub every time.
anyway, i think the person who wrote this utterly spasticated review at turntable lab is is a pretty good example of the sort of audience i'm talking about...
i'd like to hear that skulldisco record, actually. you're not the first person i've heard saying this, marcus.

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i agree there too, i'd rather these directions evolved as coincidences rather than being pushed to develop like that.
i also think the problem is that quite alot of dubstep producers only listen to dubstep, while you can hear all other street music at their best involving, developing and pulling on other simultaneous influences. that turntable lab review is kinda fucked with an air of bad authoriti. there are some great records still tho.

i dont think you can blame turntable lab for being ignorant being in america and all, most of us in the UK knew next to nothing about the scene till about a year ago. the thing is the techno, minimal or not, comparison is always going to be there because of the ovious fingerprint of the tool, ie reason/fruityloops. these programs were conceievd as a way of making techno without relying on ridiculously expensive fetishised kit. kids have just used these tools in their own way and more often than not these subtle detroit influences dont come from a lifetime of carl craig geeking, its from synth presets.
the thing with sleep archive is the the fact that all he seems to be is a copyist (not that i dont love his techno work), it seems the dubstep records just another facet of his magpie attitude. his electronica work never really struck me as partcularly mind blowing, radio transmission and the other eps werent great because of genuine originality, its just richie hawtin and mika vainio havent made a record like that in a decade. a perfect forgery is still quite easy on the eye

mms said:

that turntable lab review is kinda fucked with an air of bad authoriti. there are some great records still tho.

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hell, yeah, that era of dubstep was where i thought it was really interesting and still fun. one of my favourite periods of music ever, i think.

straight said:

i dont think you can blame turntable lab for being ignorant being in america and all, most of us in the UK knew next to nothing about the scene till about a year ago.

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i just found it extraordinarily misguided. if you don't know that dubstep came out of 2step, that people like steve gurley are incredibly important to it and that it came out of something that was essentially "happy", then you shouldn't be putting smarm-quotes around "experts". anyway, it's only a record shop blurb, but i think it does say something. if there was a bit more happiness in this music i might be interested again.