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Thread: Syria

  1. #211
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    I have - or had - a lot of respect for Fisk as well. I remember hearing him on the BBC some years ago, discussing the relentless horrors he'd seen in the ME, reduced to tears. Maybe all this, and his advancing years, means he's less critical of Assad et al? Idk. Most of the criticism I've read from Syria activists is that he's embedded with regime forces and presents their line but i've never investigated this thoroughly myself. Like I said, I've reada fair amount by him myself and I was impressed a few years back but I've not read him much in recent years. I'd be interested to read some pieces where he criticises Assad, if you have some links, Droid.
    Last edited by DannyL; 17-04-2018 at 09:36 AM.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    Oh, and here are the Saudi backed jihadist militia and defenders of Eastern Ghouta putting civilians into cages to use as human shields in 2015.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...n-shields.html

    Nice bunch of lads, not in the least bit ruthless or cynical.
    Because people here are bigging up the jihadis, or something? Whut?
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  3. #213
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  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyL View Post
    I have - or had - a lot of respect for Fisk as well. I remember hearing him on the BBC some years ago, discussing the relentless horrors he'd seen in the ME, reduced to tears. Maybe all this, and his advancing years, means he's less critical of Assad et al? Idk. Most of the criticism I've read from Syria activists is that he's embedded with regime forces and presents their line but i've never investigated this thoroughly myself. Like I said, I've reada fair amount by him myself and I was impressed a few years back but I've not read him much in recent years. I'd be interested to read some pieces where he criticises Assad, if you have some links, Droid.
    Yeah, and all the other caveats of reporting in a warzone apply as well of course.

    Id have to dig, but there was a big piece about the Hama massacre in 1982 in Pity the Nation I think? and IIRC any of his articles that have significant discussion on Hezbollah also include not particularly favourable descriptions of the Syrian government.

  5. #215
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    As an entertaining addendum, here he is being attacked for his demonisation of Assad:

    https://barbaramckenzie.wordpress.co...n-arab-spring/

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    I've read Fisk over many years and Ive seen him denounce the Assads on countless occasions, going back to the 80's. He's also extremely careful with his language there and points out the conflicts of interest in testimony.

    But yes, I guess it is conspiratorial to suggest that several states with vested interests who currently support other regimes that routinely use chemical weapons on civilians might use a case like this as a pretext to advance their own aims, after all, that's never happened before.
    You'll forgive me for adopting a default position of skepticism towards a Western journalist who's been repeatedly criticised for taking the regime line on the conflict and whose articles happen to align quite nicely with the state media of the world's uncontested masters of strategic disinformation.

    Or maybe you won't, I don't really care.
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  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    Or maybe you won't, I don't really care.
    The white, heterosexual western male is always wrong. Unless he is a white, heterosexual white "anti-imperialist" - in this case, he is always right.

  8. #218
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    Just reading now that Fisk has visited the site before the OPCW - WTF?

    And his version of events coincides with the alleged perpetrator - who have actually been blocking the OPCW from attending. Jesus. I find this genuinely shocking. WTF is he doing, reporting from there, when when the international body supposed to determine the truth here are denied access? That's fucking scandalous.

    Robert Fisk is guilty of enabling war crimes. It is an absolute disgrace he has agreed to this visit before the OPCW, and with the people inviting him having both vetoed the UN mechanism to investigate the identity of the perpetrator, and are currently blocking access to the site for the OPCW.

    This is like attending a crime scene:

    i) where access to the site is controlled by the chief suspect in the crime.

    ii) where that suspect is blocking the police from accessing the site to collect evidence.

    iii) And then dutifully insinuating the chief suspect's version of events

    Fisk should be sacked by the Independent. He is no different from those who shilled for Stalin.

    Russia and Assad are intent on bringing the entire mechanism of international law and cooperation into even greater disrepute and dysfunction.

    They are enemies of all that is worth preserving about our current system, which is little but the only thing between us and complete polarization.

    Russia and Fisk weaponise ignorance. They weaponise the gap between the complexity / nuance of a situation and the public understanding of it. They know this Fisk article will get shared by the fake news ecosystem, and spread around the world in hours. They know that just the headline implying a 'false flag', in a paper as mainstream as The Independent, will do much of the work (as it did with Newsweek) They also know the rebuttals will require paying attention and parsing the complexity and that the most likely result will be: 'it all seems so complicated and exhausting, don't know which media to trust these days'.
    Last edited by DannyL; 17-04-2018 at 12:01 PM.

  9. #219
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    Thats nothing. Did you hear that the US, UK and France actually launched attacks before the inspectors went in?

  10. #220
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    fwd by a russian troll on twitter
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28212724
    Syrian conflict: Key sarin ingredients sold by UK firms
    By Nick Hopkins Investigations correspondent, BBC Newsnight

    9 July 2014

    Sarin building blocks

    Syria's declarations to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) name Britain as the sole supplier of dimethyl phosphate (DMP), trimethyl phosphate (TMP) and hexamine - three chemicals that Syria used in the production of sarin.

    The phosphate chemicals are regarded as the building blocks of sarin and Newsnight understands British companies sold hundreds of metric tonnes of them to Damascus.

    Syria's declarations have since been verified by a Whitehall audit of chemical sales by British companies.

  11. #221
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    I remember that being brought up around the time Cameron was looking to launch airstrikes. I imagine those chemicals have other uses, but it wasn't a good look to be condemning a country for using weapons you sold them the materials to manufacture.

    In other news...

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/israel...18-4?r=US&IR=T

    "If President Trump had ordered the strike only to show that the US responded to [Syrian President Bashar] Assad's use of chemical weapons, then that goal has been achieved," a senior defense official told Israel's Ynet News. "But if there was another objective — such as paralyzing the ability to launch chemical weapons or deterring Assad from using it again — it's doubtful any of these objectives have been met."

    The Israelis seemed to take particular issue with Trump talking about his plans to strike before the military action took place.

    "If you want to shoot — shoot, don't talk," an Israeli diplomatic source told Ynet. "In the American case, this is mostly talk. They themselves show actions are not going to follow."

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by version View Post
    I remember that being brought up around the time Cameron was looking to launch airstrikes. I imagine those chemicals have other uses, but it wasn't a good look to be condemning a country for using weapons you sold them the materials
    It's par for the course, not worthy of consideration or even a mention in these days.

  13. #223
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    So, the company Phillip May works for, Capital Group, is the biggest shareholder in BAE. 6.3 million of their missiles exploded in Syria last week.

    Amber Rudd's brother handles global PR for HSBC, banker for Phillip May's company.

    https://evolvepolitics.com/theresa-m...bing-of-syria/

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  15. #224
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    Not surprisingly. Putin is using Syria as a testing ground for weaponry. The Russian stealth fighter Sukhoi - SU 57, although officially still in its prototype phase, was being used in the area of Eastern Ghouta in February and March.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-57

  16. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefinga View Post
    Not surprisingly. Putin is using Syria as a testing ground for weaponry. The Russian stealth fighter Sukhoi - SU 57, although officially still in its prototype phase, was being used in the area of Eastern Ghouta in February and March.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-57
    usa is doing the same: http://www.businessinsider.de/us-syr...18-4?r=US&IR=T

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