firefinga
Well-known member
Bingo! Iran has been the major shit-stirrer in the region for quite some time now.
Syria
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Bingo! Iran has been the major shit-stirrer in the region for quite some time now.
droid
Well-known member
Sure, but they have fallen short of direct attacks against Israel.
droid
Well-known member
lol
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
not deliberately, of course not. the danger is a saber-rattling/limited intervention spins out of control. we covered this yesterday upthread if you check back.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
right, still irresponsible af
not trying to let Israel off the hook at all, just noting. if something v bad kicks off, Iran will also share plenty of blame.
anyway, this (via Guardian live coverage) sums up my skepticism about likelihood of useful U.S. intervention, even w/o Trump's "never said when"
droid
Well-known member
Yeah, saw that. Lets hope.
Not defending Iran in any sense, but considering its up against Israel and the Saudis, and their Western backed and supplied militaries who've been banging the drum against them for well over a decade, it was inevitable they'd try and strengthen their regional position.
Not defending Iran in any sense, but considering its up against Israel and the Saudis, and their Western backed and supplied militaries who've been banging the drum against them for well over a decade, it was inevitable they'd try and strengthen their regional position.
firefinga
Well-known member
The EU is so busy pleasing the Ayatollahs they sure won't do anything which could get them upset. Hey Iran is an ever growing market we need to sell em our crap! Market trumps human rights, always has.
Thread has jumped on a bit and I'll catch up in a sec - but I'd say, yeah, happy to own the charge of naivety. I think it comes out of desperation in part, sitting as close as I can bear to accounts and images of the evil out there - the torture, the bombings, the rapes. I'm not far away in my various newsfeeds from hundreds of Syrian voices who feel similar, the desperation for change and for justice is such that they're looking for hope in Trump's unstable tweets.
I would put a question to you though - if you concede that Syrian and non-Assadist voices should be heard, what is a non-naive way to make this happen? Be damned if I can see it.
droid
Well-known member
The conflict is nowhere at the same scale, but Ive been deeply attentive and peripherally involved in Palestine for going on 20 years. Ive seen the same remorseless systems of violence, the same bloody millwheels grinding thousands to dust over and over again all whilst the West actively funds and supports the main perpetrators regardless of the increases in barbarism and impunity.
And I don't know what to say. I have no answers.
And I don't know what to say. I have no answers.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
no idea
I am definitely sympathetic to desperate people grasping at any straws of hope, fwiw
either way I'm sure Syrian public opinion is unfortunately v low on the list of factors influencing U.S., Russia, Iran, SA/UAE, etc foreign policy decisions
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
this all I mean by naive, btw
never want to abstract the suffering of any individual, family, community, into dry historical comparison, but Syria isn't unique, it's just bloodier/more barbaric than usual and b/c of ME oil etc, larger geopolitical concerns, + refugee crisis in the Western public eye in way that say, the Congo never was.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
tbc danny good on you for caring + continuing to promote human rights, justice + self-determination for Syrians
just a goddamned brutally tough situation
just a goddamned brutally tough situation
We went over this upthread - it was tactical, to drive out a group of well dug in rebels, the JaI. I can find stories on this if you want, but it's super depressing to have to rebut the obvious.. It absolutely fits with the logic of the war and past behaviour of the Assad regime.
Tucker Carlson and Fox News? Really?
Tucker Carlson and Fox News? Really?
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/syria-gas-attack_uk_5acf1b68e4b08337adc9a5dd?3wf
“It’s the most fucked up deja vu anyone can have in their life. You see it coming, you see it happening, you were there, you were choking, you were surrounded by dead people.
“Then it happens again. Then it happens again. Then it happens again.”
Eid said every time he tries to move on with his life, and recover from his experience of the sarin attack, he is hit by a reminder of what happened. “I can’t move on with my life when I see the same murders and killing of the people I grew up with all over again with the same horrible weapons,” he says.
Guilt also hangs over him.
“I feel guilty for being safe while they are suffering. I feel guilty for being able to express my mind and troll presidents or say whatever I feel like saying, when I know hundreds of thousands of people are getting tortured and raped inside of detention centres just because they said the word ‘freedom’.”
There was a quote I read recently which was a threat from an SS camp guard to some Jewish prisoners where he talked about erasing them from history. No one would know their names, and all their suffering, screaming would have been for naught. I feel that the same forces are in operation in this atmosphere of systematic distortion, the default denial of what's actually happening.
“It’s the most fucked up deja vu anyone can have in their life. You see it coming, you see it happening, you were there, you were choking, you were surrounded by dead people.
“Then it happens again. Then it happens again. Then it happens again.”
Eid said every time he tries to move on with his life, and recover from his experience of the sarin attack, he is hit by a reminder of what happened. “I can’t move on with my life when I see the same murders and killing of the people I grew up with all over again with the same horrible weapons,” he says.
Guilt also hangs over him.
“I feel guilty for being safe while they are suffering. I feel guilty for being able to express my mind and troll presidents or say whatever I feel like saying, when I know hundreds of thousands of people are getting tortured and raped inside of detention centres just because they said the word ‘freedom’.”
There was a quote I read recently which was a threat from an SS camp guard to some Jewish prisoners where he talked about erasing them from history. No one would know their names, and all their suffering, screaming would have been for naught. I feel that the same forces are in operation in this atmosphere of systematic distortion, the default denial of what's actually happening.