luka

Well-known member
Ultimately you can't ask individuals to take responsibility for the collective if the collective is not protecting them. That's what the streets will tell you in London.
 

luka

Well-known member
Get out there and look. It's not happening. You're just basically saying fuck em let em die. And that'll have consequences.
 

luka

Well-known member
This is me and grapejuice

It's all completely unprecedented. At least with the fall of the USSR we could connect it with the loss of a very discernible dualism. Only one pair of legs was knocked out from under the table. It still made sense. 9/11 made far less sense, but for a while there was still the kind of reassuring dichotomy between the official story and the alternative conspiracy narrative. Then that started to fray as well and continued fraying. But with this, it is all viral on every level. There is no narrative foundation or unity. It is everywhere at once. Both terrifying and elating. Global and deeply personal. Outer and inner. All authorities are exposed as incompetent buffoons. We're finally on our own.

Luke Davis
to fen
0 minutes agoDetails
Exactly right. The USSR thing was about the loss of dualism. That was the thing.

Luke Davis
to fen
0 minutes agoDetails
And consequently there won't be anything like a remotely unified conspiratorial take
 

version

Well-known member
Ben Watson reckons China will fund the new Marshall Plan and shape the world in their image.

It's a massive opportunity for them. There's anger that they were the source but they're already claiming to have gotten it under control and are now sending help to places like Italy whilst the EU are struggling and the US have dropped the ball entirely.
 

luka

Well-known member
Well that's what I'm saying. There's not even a unified coherent conspiracy script, there's a thousand competing conspiracies. It's not Bush knocked down the towers. Anything is possible.
 

luka

Well-known member
I might post the feed which should have cost you all ten pound each to purchase but let me see if it's too fiddly
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Ben Watson reckons China will fund the new Marshall Plan and shape the world in their image
we'll see. undoubtedly the CPC (or whoever within it actually exercises power) sees that opportunity.

otoh: probably too early to call that a done deal

for one, that anger at China for making this much worse by trying to cover it up initially won't go anywhere

and, as I've said elsewhere, I wouldn't be surprised by a longer-term shift toward domestic production, which would hurt China (tho idk how much)

for another: it's not a done deal that they, or anyone, has got it under control yet

we have to see what happens with a resurgence as they begin easing restrictions

having said all that, though, yes it seems like a strong possibility
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
one of the big reasons Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, etc have all done relatively well is the deepness of their mistrust for China

i.e. Taiwan sent its own fact-finding mission immediately, knowing better than to take anything PRC govt/media said seriously

aid overcomes many bad feelings it's true but I don't think it's like people or governments are going to forget that
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Ultimately you can't ask individuals to take responsibility for the collective if the collective is not protecting them. That's what the streets will tell you in London.

Inarguable point. These half measures are fucked up, and it's hard not to see method behind them. Get a universal basic income done already.

Glad to see you back here Luka, and I'm sorry that things are shit at the moment
 

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
I go to the top of the street
I go to the bottom of the street
I look to the sky and my lips are dry
I'm frightened.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Ultimately you can't ask individuals to take responsibility for the collective if the collective is not protecting them.
That's it in a nutshell.. it's a deal, a social contract. I actually completely get it why Californians are freaking out when the governor announced a lockdown there cos as far as I know he just said that without any kind of promise about wages, mortgages, rents etc it's exactly what you're talking about - stay in and protect the group but there is nothing set up by us to protect you.
(I could be wrong of course cos I don't follow the US news so closely, maybe I've missed the proposals or they're coming soon.)
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
I find myself thinking of this moment a lot when I hear about people (not staff ofc) idly hanging out in pubs watching Johnson's announcement that all pubs must (finally!) close:

 

luka

Well-known member
I think if you are squeezing onto a crowded tube train and commuting to a shared works space every day you are unlikely to see any good reason to avoid the pub.
 

luka

Well-known member
That's asking you to take all the risks and to forego your enjoyment. It's the worst of both worlds.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
i see your point obviously, it's a completely crazy situation and it's not a moral point. Lots of people will die and it's the result of appalling lack of guidance from above.
 
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