View Poll Results: Favourite Smoking Venue

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Thread: S M O K I N G

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomadologist View Post
    The answer would most certainly be "e."
    I'm pretty sure E doens't cause cancer!

    (roflcopters)
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    roflcopters
    coming to rescue me from the big bad bull?

  3. #18
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    Dragged this from dominic's post in the other thread, beautiful:

    but whatever, do we really want to live in a society where "health" is the highest good? i would much prefer a society that values ambiguity, sophistication, a pinch of dirt and an ounce of poison
    Health&safety, particularly the grim specter of cancer, is as pernicious a disciplinary regime as exists in the west. Reducing bodies to machines that need to function economically -- "Can't let them let themselves get sick, they won't make it to work and they'll run up medical bills" -- fuck that line of thinking. With smoking now a "social danger" everyone will know who shows insufficient deference to the dictatorship of gov't sponsored experts. "They came for the junkies, but I didn't speak up because I didn't use heroin. Then they came for the smokers, the fatties, the people who didn't eat all the vegetables on their plate, the people not popping pills of this season's fad vitamin/herbal supplement..." Well, maybe they won't come for you, but they will fire you and kick you out of the hospital (which means no insurance for you in this country).

    My mother works for a company that regularly tests for NICOTINE (they fire you if you smoke) -- they also force employees to go to the gym or they charge them more for health insurance. Disgusting. We already devote more than enough of our lives to our jobs.

  4. #19
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    but whatever, do we really want to live in a society where "health" is the highest good? i would much prefer a society that values ambiguity, sophistication, a pinch of dirt and an ounce of poison
    this position is steeped in romanticised delusion from where Im standing.

    capitalism does NOT want you to be healthy, autonomous, and self reliant.

    capitalism wants each everyone of us addicted, dependent, both pyschologicaly weak and physically unfit.


    capitalism projects the ideals of beauty and fitness in the media, and at the same time promotes garbage-food and extremely unhealthy consumption based lifestyle. the 2 work together: one as unattainable fantasy which induces guilt and low self esteem, and when you feel like shit compared to perfectly toned bodies on TV, you resort to the patterns of addiction, sit in front of the TV and inhale a giant burger to feel better.

    capitalism wants each and everyone of us unsatisfied, lonely, feeling like shit, and simultaneously forced to project an image of perfect health and problems-free sociability.

    this is the real dynamic.

    because if we were truly healthy and functional, capitalism would have no power over us.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhao View Post
    this position is steeped in romanticised delusion from where Im standing.

    capitalism does NOT want you to be healthy, autonomous, and self reliant.

    capitalism wants each everyone of us addicted, dependent, both pyschologicaly weak and physically unfit.


    capitalism projects the ideals of beauty and fitness in the media, and at the same time promotes garbage-food and extremely unhealthy consumption based lifestyle. the 2 work together: one as unattainable fantasy which induces guilt and low self esteem, and when you feel like shit compared to perfectly toned bodies on TV, you resort to the patterns of addiction, sit in front of the TV and inhale a giant burger to feel better.

    capitalism wants each and everyone of us unsatisfied, lonely, feeling like shit, and simultaneously forced to project an image of perfect health and problems-free sociability.

    this is the real dynamic.

    because if we were truly healthy and functional, capitalism would have no power over us.
    Right, but how do you disentangle "health" the image of it as purchase-able via addiction-weakness-marketing and some unmediated actuality of organic "real" well-being?
    The actual solution is to find some way out of the whole perverted binary system, which you have pinpointed correctly as being essentially about creating solipsistic addiction/depression states.
    The key then being to literally not care either way-- the easiest way to eat more healthily is to stop obsessing about food altogether, so many women I know turn food into some kind of neurotic battleground of guilt and regret... which actually renders it harder for them to stop thinking about and actually eat a balanced productive diet.
    Last edited by gek-opel; 17-11-2007 at 04:00 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gek-opel View Post
    The actual solution is to find some way out of the whole perverted binary system, which you have pinpointed correctly as being essentially about creating solipsistic addiction/depression states.
    How about actually getting health because it feels good?

    Sorry - you just edited. Yes, the pre-requisite is not to care about the mixed messages. Being physically healthy can help with that in itself.
    Last edited by noel emits; 17-11-2007 at 04:09 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gek-opel View Post
    how do you disentangle "health" the image of it as purchase-able via addiction-weakness-marketing and some unmediated actuality of organic "real" well-being?
    The actual solution is to find some way out of the whole perverted binary system.
    discipline and cleaning house. hard work: step by step get rid of addiction (of all forms).

    empty the mind, above all else of interiorized control mechanisms. re-learn to be self reliant and resilient of temptation.

    meditation - if capitalism wants us cut-off from ourselves and alienated from each other, we should get back in touch with ourselves and re-establish unbreakable bonds with others.

    I gotta get in shape now. Too much sitting is ruining my body. Too much abuse is going on for too long. From now on there will be 50 pushups each morning, 50 pull-ups. There will be no more pills, no more bad food, no more destroyers of my body. From now on will be total organization. Every muscle must be tight.
    it is no accident that the "awakening" of travis bickle coincides with a completely new attitude towards the body.
    Last edited by zhao; 17-11-2007 at 04:14 PM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by noel emits View Post
    How about actually getting health because it feels good?

    Sorry - you just edited. Yes, pre-requisite is not to core about the mixed messages. Being physically healthy can help with that in itself.
    I would also add that I personally see no reason to desire to live a massively extended life. (although that does not mean I'm valorising destructive-hedonism). That seems to be a vital part in deconstructing the Capitalist system as is: many of its negative aspects stem from the desire to over-extend the human term without obvious benefit, which to my mind creates personal misery, excessive wage slavery (obv along with consumerism), excessive pressure on stock markets etc...

  9. #24
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    Fear of death is a driving force of consumerism (see Delillo's White Noise)

  10. #25
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    and all of this non-sense man... all of this romanticizing addiction... these silly notions that "sophistication" is somehow related to sickness? what a bunch of bull-shit. just playing right into their hands.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gek-opel View Post
    I would also add that I personally see no reason to desire to live a massively extended life. (although that does not mean I'm valorising destructive-hedonism). That seems to be a vital part in deconstructing the Capitalist system as is: many of its negative aspects stem from the desire to over-extend the human term without obvious benefit, which to my mind creates personal misery, excessive wage slavery (obv along with consumerism), excessive pressure on stock markets etc...
    Being 'healthy' (that word is starting to annoy me tho) is not directly about extending life, it's much more about improving your immediate experience and ability to function correctly. And that doesn't mean to function on capitalism's terms. If you feel good in yourself you have less need to self medicate with food, drugs and things.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin View Post
    Fear of death is a driving force of consumerism (see Delillo's White Noise)
    Precisely! Its ultimately what is played upon above all else! Identity and fear of death, constructing an identity to deny death (whilst filling the world with dead fetish objects, filled up with voodoo powers, literally death-over-life over death, well sort of...)

    @Zhao: I totally understand the desire for fascistic (self-)discipline in terms of an oppositional strategy, (cf fight club and 300 also) but that is merely positing an image of rebellion in a sense, (the masculine-homo-fascist "real") which ends up becoming its own fetishistic end point... and is not to be trusted...
    Last edited by gek-opel; 17-11-2007 at 04:30 PM.

  13. #28
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    Not fascism. Exorcism.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by noel emits View Post
    Being 'healthy' (that word is starting to annoy me tho) is not directly about extending life, it's much more about improving your immediate experience and ability to function correctly. And that doesn't mean to function on capitalism's terms. If you feel good in yourself you have less need to self medicate with food, drugs and things.
    Ultimately we must renounce "health" to become truly healthy. In a sense our non-mediated identities are precisely our inimitable symptoms (mental and physical).

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by noel emits View Post
    Not fascism. Exorcism.
    Explain?

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