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Thread: On the subject of speed in Jungle

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by soul_pill
    Then again, I find I'd rather play a tune by Twisted Individual than Equinox et al sometimes... especially the more polite side of 'choppage' like the jazzier inperspective stuff (polska + F+N 12"s). Twisted's label 'Up Yours' has some wicked tracks I think. Verging on toytown gabber. The thing about dnb nowadayss is it just isn't Jungle. It shouldn't be judged against it any longer - it's evolved into it's own thing. I far prefer the wobble stuff to what full cycle or even Calibre are doing
    agreed, but they should call it something different then. just like we did, when the music evolved first time round.

    then we could reclaim it!!! (if we weren't all infirm old codgers nursing our AWOL memories before they slip away into the mists of time, that is)

  2. #77
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    well, they did call it clownstep for a few months, until they banned the name on DOA. Wobble will have to do.

  3. #78
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    They banned 'clownstep' on DOA? Hah.

    I used to post there about two years ago, but it's a pretty awful message board, full of dicks. Good for mixes though.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphta
    We had Ed Rush & Nico over to Dublin in 96 - around the period when N-U-T was peaking - and I distinctly remember me and a mate raving about Nico's collaboration as/with Doppelganger ('Days Gone') - a moody roller feat. his trademark fat Led Zepp breaks... we were bigging it up but experiencing a little trouble getting it in the mix with the other stuff that as about then, hence we were jokingly telling him to 'speed it up a bit', and I well remember him paqying close attention to this request - making a mental note as if to say... "OK, the djs are saying: "make it faster"... so I will!"
    OMG! I just noticed this! Naphta in 'I killed jungle' shocker!!

    I dont remember much of it - but I knew there was something fishy going on that night!

  5. #80

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    My quick and non-scientific ideas of why the speed increased:

    1. Jungle got a rep for being too dark and raves being violent. The girls started to leave and took a lot of the blokes with them.
    2. UK Garage fused House and Jungle appealing to two established crowds looking for something new and fresh and hence it got big.
    3. Jungle was left with the druggy ravers who want to go mental and its committed producers. Lack of crowd meant darker music from those producers and increases in speed resulted in the druggers going more mental. A compromise was achieved.
    4. UK Garage got commercialised and lost its soul. Crowd who left start listening to the newly named DnB again and crowd sizes increase. New producers and established producers breath a sigh of relief and the music improves but keeps its speed increases.
    5. DnB all starts to sound very similar and the moving crowd gets bored. With UK Garage gone Indie music has a revival.
    6. Present day - Indie music becomes commercialised and all sounds the same. Retro can only last so long. Slimzee starts playing DnB at half speed at events like Sidewinder and the MC takes centre stage. Grime is born.

    Feel free to rip my vast generalisations apart!

  6. #81
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    interesting thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Naphta
    Ahh, 'breakage'!!! Yeah, there was much discussion and agonising over genre names over on the d+b resistance HQ forum (Subvert Central) a year or two ago... I argued that as with the drum n bass/ happy hardcore split in 94, another split would be a good and necessary thing... and that a separate identity would require a different name, 'drum n bass' now having crapped all over itself once too many times.

    Unfortunately I was out-voted and hence the confusion for punters re: what exactly links a tune by Equinox with a tune by Twisted Indidual? (answer = nothing except tempo)
    why not lead by example again and try to make music at 160-165 bpm? that way there would be more room for experiments, djs who are ready to play slower records would have enough new tracks to do so and those who would like to mix it with new stuff would be able to do it at a slower tempo? and your music would still have its own identity. just a thought.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay-s
    interesting thread


    why not lead by example again and try to make music at 160-165 bpm? that way there would be more room for experiments, djs who are ready to play slower records would have enough new tracks to do so and those who would like to mix it with new stuff would be able to do it at a slower tempo? and your music would still have its own identity. just a thought.
    if there weren't enough tracks initially you could just fill up with old skool! i'm sure everyone would be happy with that, problem solved

  8. #83
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    actually quite a few producers are returning to do tunes at slower speeds to bring back the space and funk to dnb. the pitch up in speed works well within being on the decks but doesnt translate well when producing at such hyped up levels. i think for me that has been the most frustrating thing to have to make such drastic changes in pitch to play classics with newer material. the rise in bpm mainly was to make the 2 step break made monstrous by the rise of techstep flow smoother. the synth heavy tunes and those reliant upon a trance sound benefitted greatly. newer artists such as calibre and others brought back the funk and slowed it down considerably at the same time to allow the music to breathe. the have brought back music to dnb as to what danny flytronix, jmj and richie, ez rollers, guardians of dalliance, helen t were doing that really shined on the ladies as well as the fellas. there was great music as well as dancefloor killers. metalheadz and moving shadow are still the lasting labels with reinforced that pushed it all on the floor.
    dnb now has lost that identity to just make the most over the top smasher with some sci fi sample. its killing the scenes in the us i have played in. 8 hours of robotechstep just isnt doing anything anymore. the play jonny l stuff which is done well at 180 on +6 or higher. no one is dancing or moving. just staring. its been great to see people slowly bringing tempos down becuase the long standing producers have said lets get the speeds down some. get people dancing again not just buggin out on the floor.dom and roland, dillinja, many others.

  9. #84
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    Seems like a simple enouigh solution, doesn't t? Personally, that's what I'm at.. but I had trouble persuading other like-minded producers to do the same - the felt that such a move would finally seperate them from the drum n bass scene and its ready-made audience - a scene they hope to somehow reclaim for 'good' drum n bass!

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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger View Post
    one thing about the bass in a lot of the classic jungle is that it's both the bedrock of the tune and also this unstable, trepidatious presence -- it frees up the drums to go haywire but it's not entirely a solid foundation itself
    Quote Originally Posted by bassnation View Post
    yeah, some jungle tunes, the combination of the beats and the bass were like some intricate clockwork machine ticking at different tempos but somehow all aligned in the same purpose.
    important stuff here. have to admit I didn’t fully understand what all the hype was about jungle until I realized I had been mentally separating the basslines from the breaks and finally started hearing them at the same time, with the bass functioning like a second or even primary kick drum.

    listening to music that’s more harmony and melody centric (e.g. western classical) is often about separation: you train your ear to discern specific voice lines within a naturally blended mass of harmony.

    whereas with dance music it’s the opposite: learning to hear how all these very clearly defined sounds spanning the entire frequency spectrum work together as one unit to create a sense of motion.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvuent View Post
    whereas with dance music it’s the opposite: learning to hear how all these very clearly defined sounds spanning the entire frequency spectrum work together as one unit to create a sense of motion.
    not that every aspect has to feel homogeneous. obviously you can have contrasting motions, things that don't quite align, etc., within the larger motion.

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