baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
again, no one is saying scientists lack imagination. and no one said there are no scientists in Indonesia or Malawi. you are putting words in my mouth.

the worlds described by Salmon Rushdie, Italo Calvino, Gabriel García Márquez, for instance. or the films of Apichatpong Weerasethakuls. i wish Chaotropic would relate more of his first hand experiences in Mongolia, Thailand, the Amazons. there are wonderful things about these different world views (as well as not so wonderful or downright fucked up).

fair enough - it was just a genuine question rather than a rhetorical question.

I WAY prefer Chaotropic's writings to either Rushdie or Calvino, I must say. Marquez I quite like. Who's the director you named - not familiar with him or her?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Zhao, just what are you getting at here? That people with a rationalist world view are unable to appreciate fantasy or magic realist fiction? Or that a writer like Rushdie actually believes he inhabits a world full of ghosts and witches, directed by the ineffable forces of fate and prophecy, just because he writes novels in that kind of milieu?
 

zhao

there are no accidents
I'd say that that mysterious quality of other cultures is one ascribed by you from the outside, ignoring the short lives and drudgery that often occurs in such places.

if you say that you would be wrong. i grew up experiencing first hand a culture much closer to what i am talking about. and for the hundredth time i don't ignore anything. do you know how to read? one more time: i am not painting a picture of perfect spritualist societies. i am saying there are many good things about these cultures which are lost. well aware of the bad things.

Who's the director you named - not familiar with him or her?

Apichatpong Weerasethakul
MysteriousObject.jpg
tropical%20malady.jpg


And that that mysteriousness/romance is alive in the west, precisley through those authors you namecheck. Calvino, Marquez et al are truly where that romance/mystery lies.
Zhao, just what are you getting at here? That people with a rationalist world view are unable to appreciate fantasy or magic realist fiction? Or that a writer like Rushdie actually believes he inhabits a world full of ghosts and witches, directed by the ineffable forces of fate and prophecy, just because he writes novels in that kind of milieu?

you clearly have never been to India have you? do you think Rushdie invented everything in his books in his head? no. they are works which draw upon the rich mystical traditions in India.

i don't think you have a clue of what exactly i am describing. if you ever do go to a place like Java or Mongolia or India or parts of China, with an open mind, and stay a while and hang out with locals and absorb some of the local culture, you will experience for yourself. and if not, you will likely never understand.
 
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grizzleb

Well-known member
I find that sort of tourism a little repulsive tbh, so I won't be bothering.

Give the natives some nice dollars make them do traditional dances for you. Feel spiritual awakening. I prefer trying to find my way here...More difficult but more rewarding IMO.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
you clearly have never been to India have you? do you think Rushdie invented everything in his books in his head? no. they are works which draw upon the rich mystical traditions in India.

Oh gods, here we go again...I wasn't talking about where Rushdie gets his inspiration from, and I'll ask you not to patronise me by talking about rich mystical traditions as if I was unaware of any such thing. The point is, they are myths, which is to say STORIES, which is to say NOT LITERALLY TRUE. I would guess that Rushdie, being evidently an extremely clever, knowledgeable and highly educated person of the modern world, is aware of this. That obviously does not compromise his ability to tell entrancing stories that draw on that tradition. The fact that I'm aware of it does not compromise my ability to enjoy those stories. Seriously, you have heard of the concepts of metaphor and allegory, haven't you?

And you can cope with the idea that it's possible to value and take an interest in people's myths and beliefs without literally believing in them? I'm interested in all kinds of old stories and legends, I find it fascinating, but I'm aware that stories and legends is exactly what they are.

i don't think you have a clue of what exactly i am describing. if you ever do go to a place like Java or Mongolia or India or parts of China, with an open mind, and stay a while and hang out with locals and absorb some of the local culture, you will experience for yourself. and if not, you will likely never understand.

Oh do me a fucking favour, mate. Sometimes you sound up yourself I think if I ever met you in the flesh you'd resemble a sort of human ouroboros.
 
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nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
again, no one is saying scientists lack imagination. and no one said there are no scientists in Indonesia or Malawi. you are putting words in my mouth.

what i have been saying is modern society with its rationalist bias lacks many kinds of mystery and sense of wonder found in traditional cultures.

the worlds described by Salmon Rushdie, Italo Calvino, Gabriel García Márquez, for instance. or the films of Apichatpong Weerasethakuls.

You do realize that you just said that modern societies lack wonder and imagination, then as examples of what those two qualities would be like you cited three contemporary writers, two of them distinctly "Western"-- right?

Apparently a sense of mystery and wonder are not completely "lost" to us...
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
i grew up experiencing first hand a culture much closer to what i am talking about.

You grew up in Communist China, bro.

they are works which draw upon the rich mystical traditions in India.

Ah yes. One of those rich traditions, where children who are born with serious medical conditions are denied treatment because the monkey gods would get angry that way.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
i don't think you have a clue of what exactly i am describing. if you ever do go to a place like Java or Mongolia or India or parts of China, with an open mind, and stay a while and hang out with locals and absorb some of the local culture, you will experience for yourself. and if not, you will likely never understand.

and you wonder why you elicit such hostility. every time I want to be like "you know, I'm being too hard on Zhao" you bust out with one of these gems.

plus that shit is just awful. I'm sure the locals are just thrilled to have silly Westerners hanging around trying to "absorb their culture". going East for a spiritual quest is only the most trite, hackeneyed cliche in the playbook of New Age bullshit. seriously. if that's what reintroducing the mysterious into our lives is about, then count me the F out. jesus, it's even worse than the usual tropical fantasy escapist nonsense - at least those tourists are up front about the gross, commercial nature of what they're there for.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
I find that sort of tourism a little repulsive tbh, so I won't be bothering. Give the natives some nice dollars make them do traditional dances for you. Feel spiritual awakening.
The point is, they are myths, which is to say STORIES, which is to say NOT LITERALLY TRUE. I would guess that Rushdie, being evidently an extremely clever, knowledgeable and highly educated person of the modern world, is aware of this. That obviously does not compromise his ability to tell entrancing stories that draw on that tradition. The fact that I'm aware of it does not compromise my ability to enjoy those stories. Seriously, you have heard of the concepts of metaphor and allegory, haven't you?
Ah yes. One of those rich traditions, where children who are born with serious medical conditions are denied treatment because the monkey gods would get angry that way.
plus that shit is just awful. I'm sure the locals are just thrilled to have silly Westerners hanging around trying to "absorb their culture". going East for a spiritual quest is only the most trite, hackeneyed cliche in the playbook of New Age bullshit. seriously. if that's what reintroducing the mysterious into our lives is about, then count me the F out. jesus, it's even worse than the usual tropical fantasy escapist nonsense - at least those tourists are up front about the gross, commercial nature of what they're there for.

the irony here is that you all accuse me of unjustly painting a picture of western rationalists as insufferable uptight bores with no imagination, calcified pineal glands, sticks up their asses and nothing but negativity to share with the world, and yet you yourself do such a better job of it than i ever can. :D

jeez, what a bitchfest

hope it's at least marginally entertaining for you :D:D:D
 
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padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
resemble a sort of human ourobos.

this made me laugh, quite a bit. (tho tbf I'm apt to start whinging on about politics & boring every f**ker at parties so hey) I think it's the obscurity of the reference.

Ah yes. One of those rich traditions, where children who are born with serious medical conditions are denied treatment because the monkey gods would get angry that way.

& this is wrong, very very wrong, but it made me laugh even harder.
 

scottdisco

rip this joint please
i got some very helpful information about sleep paralysis swears, i can tell you that much ;)

good to see you back, BTW!
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Zhao is proving that having been born in China is no impediment to being a dedicated Orientalist.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Hey you guys, what's going on in this thread, then?

Well, Swears, since you've been around for a while, you know it's gotta be one of two things:

1) Black Athena

or

2) The West has lost its way to the magical mystery tour that the East has been on for, like, forever
 
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