South Africa in the year 2010

S

scottdisco

rip this joint please
baboon2004 said:
But what's the conclusion that follows from the high crime stats being relevant? Some non-South African people who have chosen to visit for a sporting event are going to be in the same kind of danger (well, apart from staying in nice hotels and avoiding the 'bad areas' and stuff) as lots of people who have to deal with that every day? Should FIFA therefore not hold the WC in SA?

I can't recall much of this hysterical talk going on when the Lions fans visited SA last year, as a side point.
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tbf the comparison between the fairly minor - when you brass tack it - sport of rugby, and the most popular spectator sport on the planet by a veldt mile, w the attendant large differences in incoming spectators, cachet, etc is a fairly big leap.

tbc, i'll just re-clarify, we're all on the same 'side' here (i think Sloane and Baboon know that of me for sure via private chat!), i am just pointing out the obvious. (as we all are, although not obvious enough for much of our traditional media.)

the Terreblanche murder has re-ignited media stupidity and lack of proportion for sure on this issue. (in the same way - and here i am not making this up - my beloved Daily Express * had a few days once covering Sudan in quite a bit of depth following that whole English teacher teddy bear incident. the next week i gratefully anticipated coverage of the CPA, an upsurge in communal violence in the south, al-Bashir's indictment and so on. alas, not. they had moved back to Diana.)

if that slaying had occurred prior to previous Rainbow Nation-hosted world rugby or cricket tournaments, i'm sure we would have got more of it then in the red tops (and some of the 'quality' papers).

we'll get a lot more of this obviously, alas, and i may flatter myself by including me with the rest of you, but everyone on this thread has a brain, which is not the case for ignorants in the pub mouthing off about violent Africans (as if the continent arrived fully formed in its present condition w no relations w other parts of the world prior to now) :cool:

* longtime somedisco readers know i am not a fan
 
M

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
routes said:
interested to know what you mean by 'colonialist media'? do you mean UK media? do you mean English-language SA media? both?

Juju clearly doesn't give much of a shit tho -

"We want the mines. They have been exploiting our minerals for a long time. Now it's our turn to also enjoy from these minerals. They are so bright, they are colourful, we refer to them as white people, maybe their colour came as a result of exploiting our minerals and perhaps if some of us can get opportunities in these minerals we can develop some nice colour like them."
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I was specifically riled by that Guardian piece; you take a whole bunch of homeless people, house them, and then get criticised for it by the English media. It's just not what anyone needs, and not what I expect from the Guardian; I found it pernicious at best and I'd personally like to see that journalist taken off their payroll, I thought it was a deeply offensive, hyper-critical article.

W/regard to Juju, I mean SA has always had a particularly radical youth faction; I personally wouldn't want to see it any other way. Vimothy's right though, talking about it does just go round in circles.
 
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S

scottdisco

rip this joint please
mistersloane said:
I was specifically riled by that Guardian piece; you take a whole bunch of homeless people, house them, and then get criticised for it by the English media. It's just not what anyone needs, and not what I expect from the Guardian; I found it pernicious at best and I'd personally like to see that journalist taken off their payroll, I thought it was a deeply offensive, hyper-critical article.

W/regard to Juju, I mean SA has always had a particularly radical youth faction; I personally wouldn't want to see it any other way. Vimothy's right though, talking about it does just go round in circles.
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i'm pretty sure the Guardian will have criticised the limited pace of improvements in Afghan life (of course not as fast as anyone would like, but they are there) since the Taliban were removed to give just one other example; sometimes there is a real moon-on-a-stick vibe i get from them.

despite slagging off Juju earlier, i liked this bit

Malema said..."When you are in my house you must behave,"
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it amuses me. i hope he wagged his finger.
 
M

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
Moon-on-a-stick is a great phrase, I know what you mean, and yeah, maybe it's expecting instant fixes - "you're hosting the WORLD CUP!!! Please sort out your political system, your poverty and while you're at it, cure HIV, will you? There's a good chap".

I guess I should write to the Guardian (the horror of complaining...) rather than take it out on you lot, I was horrified by that article though. It was front page. It's just such reductionism. "South Africa in poverty and violence shock"....Would you rather have the teenage prostitutes getting fucked by all the football fans? Or would you like to move them to somewhere (stated as temporary) and less liable for abuse? I just don't know what that article was saying at all - or rather, I infer I do - and it just stinks of liberal disgust at a country that isn't doing what 'we're' doing.

Like we're not gonna have mass steamings out East come the Olympics. It's just look at the idiocy surrounding policies in our own backyard - the new stadium and their inability to be able to let West Ham take it on without keeping the fucking running track as an example... try and give positive criticism to a country that's at least trying, for god's sake. It was a completely damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't article; I expect that from the Mail.

Sorry, rant over. And Capetown isn't that heavy, at all. Jo-burg's a different matter though.
 
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B

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
That Guardian article is terribly confused, like someone waving a finger at the situation and going 'bad!'

'Andile Mngxitama, a political commentator and columnist, is about to publish a pamphlet entitled "Fuck the World Cup".'

That bit did make me laugh though.

Can anyone recommend a good book that explains how the 'handover' at the end of apartheid went so disastrously wrong, economically speaking. I got the impression Mbeki was heavily to blame for giving away the prime economic institutions to entrenched (white) interests far too cheaply, but need to read more.


On another issue: Does War on Want describe itself as an 'anti-poverty charity'? Seems very reductionist - surely what it's trying to do is more than that, in challenging the structures/institutions which cause world inequalities. The difference between fighting poverty from a technician's standpoint and a political standpoint is huge.
 
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routes

we can delay.ay.ay...
NEWSFLASH! Die Zonne in irresponsible journalism shocker! see the couple of recent 'heart of darkness' headlines upthread... people i speak to in SA can't believe the shit the UK media get away with. even the beebeesee website is still helpfully shoving all news from 'Africa' into one tidy basket (casket?) ..

that Guardian article was almost triumphant in the way it vacantly singled out Blikkiesdorp. it just isn't news, it's hype. there are hundreds of crumbling 'Mandela towns' dotted all over the country. that's the way it is. i drove past one near Bredasdorp and the image of this absolutely massive decaying rainbow-coloured sign advertising Carling Black Label on the top of a hill over-looking the town and motorway is one that will stay with me..
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
baboon2004 said:
On another issue: Does War on Want describe itself as an 'anti-poverty charity'? Seems very reductionist - surely what it's trying to do is more than that, in challenging the structures/institutions which cause world inequalities. The difference between fighting poverty from a technician's standpoint and a political standpoint is huge.
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Right, but it's probably also the difference between being a charity and a political pressure group. There are, akaik, strict laws governing how deeply they can get involved in politics without losing their charitable (ie tax-free) status?
 
B

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
crackerjack said:
Right, but it's probably also the difference between being a charity and a political pressure group. There are, akaik, strict laws governing how deeply they can get involved in politics without losing their charitable (ie tax-free) status?
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I don't know, in all honesty, and I should do. I guess for WoW it is indeed a way of getting around that, but the law is an ass.
 
R

routes

we can delay.ay.ay...
2011... SA about to (probably) pass a new Freedom of Information act that will set the country back generations. today is a sad day tbh.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
routes said:
2011... SA about to (probably) pass a new Freedom of Information act that will set the country back generations. today is a sad day tbh.
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i don't know anything about this... presuming it's a little more than an anti-censorship thing? or why is it bad?
 
R

routes

we can delay.ay.ay...
as ever Zapiro says it best

it hasn't been reported in the UK either. even the BBC's 'Africa' subsection doesn't mention it. tbh SA doomsayers have been predicting ever since Zuma got in.
 
M

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
routes said:
as ever Zapiro says it best

it hasn't been reported in the UK either. even the BBC's 'Africa' subsection doesn't mention it. tbh SA doomsayers have been predicting ever since Zuma got in.
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We were in Grahamstown for Black Tuesday - I wore black, one guy was walking down the street just buzzing a tazer, up and down the street. Everyone in SA is super depressed about the Bill, and its coverage overseas is appalling. It's the only thing any of the print media - even the Voice and the tabloids - are talking about.
 
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