Thailand

four_five_one

Infinition
Some people doubt the existence of the "black shirts". Experienced war reporter Michael Yon has personally witnessed them: "They are using radios, telephones and fire bombs a...nd fireworks." Soldiers are still being very nice to Michael Yon. He feels that soldiers didn't shoot any red shirts because they're very nice to him. Though he has no evidence for that.

My 'open letter' to Michael Yon - "you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. No further reports until you've done at least a little reading."
 

four_five_one

Infinition
Very little change thus far today. Some random firing but no reported deaths. A Thai told me on Facebook that she witnessed several soldiers shot to pieces and killed outside her room. Yet Erawan Center which does the official count for deaths has no report of this, neither does anyone else. Asked her to tell me where she lived so I could pass it on to an international reporter, no response...

Guess you start to confabulate when you've swallowed so much propaganda, huh?

In other news, Michael Yon is still a retard: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4402138&id=207730000664 - the standard of his reporting here must call any of his reports from Afghanistan into question.
 

four_five_one

Infinition
Does anyone else despise Michael Yon? OK, enough about him now...

Latest developments include a possible ceasefire negotiated bet. reds & government with senators meditating. Also a rumour circulating that the full crackdown may ensue at 11pm Thai time (should peace deal fail, I assume).

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/37480/whatever-the-govt-may-say-this-is-a-massacre

Also of interest, this note by Federico Ferrara:

@thai_buzz asked the following: "Do you think every gov should resign, when there is uprising in need of CC measures, as long as the military isn't capable?"

This is a very tough question to ask in terms quite so general, without consideration for the details of the particular case.

I would say three things, however.

First, in real parliamentary democracies, governments often resign for much less than this (sometimes just after losing a single vote in parliament). This government claims to act in the name of the majority. Fine. Then resign and call an election. If what Abhisit says is true, he will have both solved the problem in the streets and strengthened the government.

Second, one has to consider the nature of the threat. If the choice is between massacring hundreds of people and ceding power to a fascist dictator, then perhaps mowing people down might be an option (by that logic, for instance, the Italian government would have done well to consider crushing Mussolini's "March on Rome"). But if the choice is between massacring hundreds of people and having a new election (incidentally, an election under rules designed by your own patrons), I'll choose the latter every time.

Third, we should say something against the nature of this regime. Abhisit has come to power only after the repeated usurpation of the people's will. Rather prominently, his rise to power took place thanks to military intervention and a campaign of protests far more disruptive/costly than these (which, I might add, the previous government handled in a rather more restrained fashion). Abhisit should have recognized long ago that when you live by the sword you die by the sword. Hard for him to now say that the government cannot submit to mob rule when it came to power thanks to mob rule.

So, in conclusion, the general answer to your question is "it depends." But in this case, there is no doubt in my mind that Abhisit would have done everyone a favor (especially himself) had he recognized the illegitimacy of his tenure and had resigned a year or so ago.
 

four_five_one

Infinition
Reuters quotes:

"The fact that so many people have died without the army having gained much ground seems like a rather ominous sign," said Federico Ferrara, a political science professor at the National University of Singapore.

"Having already started opening fire on civilians, journalists, emergency medical personnel, and generally everything that moves, the difference between 50, 100, or 200 deaths is just a number on a piece of paper."
...
"His position has been in jeopardy since he ordered the crackdown," said Pavin Chachavalpongpun, a research fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore.

"He will go down in the Thai history as a leader who ordered the killing of the people, even when it meant saving the country -- and his own power position."
...
"Even if the protesters are dispersed, which obviously will eventually happen, the underlying social tensions and political tensions will not have been resolved, and they will come up again," said Josh Kurlantzick of the U.S.-based think tank, Council on Foreign Relations.

"It's a fallacy for the governmen to think they can just crush this."
 

four_five_one

Infinition
ss-100517-bangkok-mw05.ss_full.jpg
 

scottdisco

rip this joint please
"Even if the protesters are dispersed, which obviously will eventually happen, the underlying social tensions and political tensions will not have been resolved, and they will come up again," said Josh Kurlantzick of the U.S.-based think tank, Council on Foreign Relations.

absurdly on the money.

@four_five_one, that Somtow person you are arguing w on Twitter sounds a right clown :mad:
 

four_five_one

Infinition
He wrote this: http://www.somtow.org/2010/05/dont-blame-dan-rivers.html really hi-so guy, multiple talents, Dad was a kleptomaniac diplomat and stole stuff from the British embassy in London. Says he's a liberal, but is cheer leading state sponsored murder.

btw is Michael Yon an actual real serious reporter? What's his background? His last 15 or so reports have included the sentence "Thai soldiers are very polite".
 

scottdisco

rip this joint please
that Somtow chap is all over the map. condemns state-sponsored killing when Thaksin was at the top, but minimising now?

jerk.

Yon is for reals. ex-US SF, went into embed writing in Iraq and then Afghanistan.

ahem. think he'd be doing a lot better if he was still in Afghanistan...
 

four_five_one

Infinition
Seems his Facebook is full of conservative 'types': http://www.facebook.com/MichaelYonFanPage

"Since April 10, more than 60 people have been killed. At least 36 civilians have died since the second round of clashes erupted last Thursday night. Yesterday, the government ordered three more public holidays in Bangkok so they could get rid of the tens of thousands of protesters holding out at Rajprasong intersection and elsewhere.

Yet some Thais remain indifferent. They go about their daily business as normal, dining and chatting happily while killings continue.

In fact, those opposed to the red-shirt movement even seem to be delighted that the Army is liberally firing live bullets. Few ask where the water cannons, the tear gas, batons, anti-riot police and ear-shattering anti-riot sound disseminator vehicles that the government "promised" to use are. Why are they not being used as weapons to disperse the crowds?

A female yellow-shirt radio host at FM 97.75 station told listeners on Monday morning that 30 deaths "wasn't that much". Newspapers like ASTV-Manager Daily called for the government on Monday to finish off the enemy and urged Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva "not to lose heart".

"Please be more swift and decisive," the paper advised Abhisit.

As more people are being killed, we must acknowledge that everybody, no matter what colours they wear, have friends, relatives and loved ones."


http://www.nationmultimedia.com/hom...-toll-more-than-just-statistics-30129685.html
 

four_five_one

Infinition
Chief of JUNTA PM Abhisit went to Eton where he learned civilization, he shares many of our liberal ethics. It's a "crackdown with kindness".
 

four_five_one

Infinition
Don't know if anyone from BBC or CNN is awake to cover this yet. It's 5am. Protest leaders tell protesters to get ready to fight, and ask them if they have protection from gas...
 

four_five_one

Infinition
Really hope this is true:

[MCOT 5am bkk time] APCs & tanks are merely for reinforcements. Crackdown not yet imminent.

(MCOT is a Thai TV channel)
 
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