Twees're Good (except they're not)

[rubberdingyrapids]

so how did universal middle class 'cool' become dominated by twee? cos a big company like match.com or john lewis or ____, they must know that this stuff doesnt only appeal to a small bunch of hipsters in east london, otherwise they wouldnt use it. (though, id say theres prob as many ppl who dress like bok bok as there are who dress like mumford and sons). the anti-twee camp seem pretty small.

i cant really disagree with the last two paragraphs of the amanda brown piece (though i did used to read a lot more longform pieces on the net, there prob still are as many being posted, i just dont read them as much as i used to). im with her when it comes to over sleek modern tech too - so many modern products seem to be about visual design first, actual nuts and bolts performing their function, second.

p.s. just cos you buy *something* doesnt mean you cant say anything about people that just buy stuff for the sake of buying, or how ppl feel like materialism is being forced on us. and vintage is kind of a fight against consumerism cos its recycling isnt it (though the price of retro clothing is much more than it used to be).

 

[computer_rock]

twee is the dominant aesthetic of bourgeois liberalism. discuss.

 

[baboon2004]

No you're not, there's plenty of people who don't like darkness or modern urban music and who like knitting and stupid craft markets for people to make shit that no-one wants but they buy it. And they should go and live in the country. They like it there. They like it there with their parents. They like children and houses and dogs and breeding. They should fuck off out of cities and go back to where they were born. That's what I hate, my air and my airwaves being polluted by these fucking white middle class cunts. What future. It's white-ring reactionaries.

What I hate is the fake consumerism, it's people who think they're better consumers, it's so fucking arrogant. You're just a consumer like fucking everyone else. Just cos you made it yourself doesn't mean you didn't buy the fucking wool.

You're not being unfair.

I hate Laura Marling as well. And that's not just because she's a girl.

That's a great answer, though I don't know who Laura Marling is (I guess I'm lucky by the sound of it). It jumps on one step from what I was thinking this monring, that there's a defintie political aspect to this (and Paolo mentioning class is spot on I think) -your comment on a sdupposed hierachy of consumerism chimes in with what I thought about the article by that fuckhead charlie Brooker after the riots, denigrating trainers and MTV Cribs for being 'stupid' or soemsuch, whereas I bet he doesn't think his lovely high-end consumerist purchases are stupid, does he?

The elephant in the room for me, which started me thinking about the political undertones of all this, is Amelie. Say what you like about Juno, it wasn't twee and quasi-fascist (the whitewashing of the 18th arrondissement in Paris, which, believe me, is like having a film set in Brixton where everyone is white. Like an FN/BNP fantasy).

Thing about not liking urban-type music - my personal bugbear is people who say they 'don't like that horrible RnB with its stupid lyrics', yet still are apparently fine with pop and indieish pop music and fucking Wonderwall. Oh, and who think that RnB can only ever refer to Motown meaningfully, because 'we' can only say black people make good music when they're dead/nat the very least past their peak. See also with my reggae/dancehall and 90s/contemporary hip hop points earlier.

 

[SecondLine]

And they should go and live in the country. They like it there. They like it there with their parents. They like children and houses and dogs and breeding. They should fuck off out of cities and go back to where they were born. That's what I hate, my air and my airwaves being polluted by these fucking white middle class cunts. What future. It's white-ring reactionaries.

newcomers to dissensus should read this passage upon registering.

Good point about 'fake consumerism', consumerism that manages to give itself a pseudo-moral dimension. Though I guess there is a qualitative difference with a culture based around charity shopping/recycling, but ultimately as it gets disseminated out to the wider public it's just people buying high street stuff that looks like somebody died in it in the 80s.

 

[computer_rock]

i cant really disagree with the last two paragraphs of the amanda brown piece (though i did used to read a lot more longform pieces on the net, there prob still are as many being posted, i just dont read them as much as i used to)

i dunno. for me this isn't really that big a deal:

You can see the results in online music criticism, which has had to shrink itself down to text-like nuggets just to stay afloat (and relevant) in the flood of so much overnight new content. It’s such a maze navigating sites like Pitchfork, where every genre and group name is hyperlinked and flanked by animated gifs and pop-ups until it feels like you’re being sucked down an advertising wormhole.

apart from the fact she honestly sounds like someone who has never used a computer before. "oh gosh it's all so confusing where do i click", i always thought it was quite obvious that the internet has genuinely revolutionised criticism and discussion. and no one going to deny there's a lot of shit on the internet, but would be have things like the rouge's foam blog without it? self-published media that integrates text, images and sound (in the form of samples and now entire blogposts read aloud as podcasts), for me that's the future of criticism. obviously the internet brings with it a load of awful shit too, but as far as ie criticism goes i really do think it's hard to deny it's massive fucking improvement on what we had.

 

[baboon2004]

@SecondLine - exactly, it's the fetishisation of something that once upon a time had a point, but now is just being trotted out for coolness.

I personally think most of the depoliticised environmental normativity (not the stuff that actually connects the environment and other politics in some way, which is often great) is part of this whole aesthetic too. As I said on another thread, the people who are ardent recyclers and ardent flyers - "make sure you kids do the recycling while we're in New Zealand" kind of thing. I fly, but then I dont' seriously pretend I give a shit about the environment.

"I'm Not A Plastic Bag". No, you're a tacky disingenuous consumerist piece of shit. And your bag is irritating too.

 

[rubberdingyrapids]

Good point about 'fake consumerism', consumerism that manages to give itself a pseudo-moral dimension.

well yeah... tweeness is ultimately just about going against the dominant culture of mass production/high street fashion etc (i doubt many hipsters really give a shit about sweat shops etc). though i wonder with twee vintage becoming so mainstream, it must be time for something else now.

 

[baboon2004]

Because mass culture is seen as cheap, or 'chav', or whatever. But, as Sloane said, this rejection doesn't involve any reflection upon consumerism itself - quite the opposite.

 

[Slothrop]

Are we suffering definition-creep again here?

To me, 'twee' refers to a fairly specific aesthetic, specifically a) Belle and Sebastian and b) bands who sound like Belle and Sebastian but without the wit. Very little of which seems to be either East London trendy or bourgeouis consumerist universal.

But here we seem to be talking about anything a bit folksy, a bit handmade, a bit sentimental and a bit wilfully shonky... which is again at risk of becoming a bit of an amorphous concept, but is perhaps more of a dominant thing than it used to be, probably as a pendulum swing against gadgety hi-tech modernism, as the combination of global recession and environmental concerns mean that middle class consumers still want to have lots of nice stuff but are a bit embarrassed about it looking shiny and hi-tech and conspicuously expensive...

NB Cath Kidston. Now that's twee.

 

[routes]

obviously tho there's a snobbery that works the other way tho... niche culture as self-defeating and inert // someone made a point about 'good old fashioned broadband. from yorkshire'. i thought that was funny.

 

[Slothrop]

Also, I'm not down with trendy East London these days, but I thought they were all still listening to post dubstep and riding brightly coloured bikes and weariing brightly coloured hoodies? Has the whole of Shoreditch turned into a knitting circle since I was last there?

 

[baboon2004]

Is this a thread about a particular kind of predominantly middle-class disingenousness in culture? To me it is, and twee is one example, of it, and Shoreditch another. People move on to tweeness after they become too old for Shoreditch?

 

[SecondLine]

Also, I'm not down with trendy East London these days, but I thought they were all still listening to post dubstep and riding brightly coloured bikes and weariing brightly coloured hoodies? Has the whole of Shoreditch turned into a knitting circle since I was last there?

hehe. It's the straw man of middle class bandwagoneering

 

[Slothrop]

Also has anyone complaining in this thread about middle class consumerism looked in the middle class consumerism sorry I mean 'miscellaneous' subforum of dissensus recently?

Although obviously our interest in obscure American designers and random foodie stuff is genuine and authentic whereas via our hipster-ESP we can tell that the people we look down on only like vintage stuff "because it's cool".

 

[Trillhouse]

No you're not, there's plenty of people who don't like darkness or modern urban music and who like knitting and stupid craft markets for people to make shit that no-one wants but they buy it. And they should go and live in the country. They like it there. They like it there with their parents. They like children and houses and dogs and breeding. They should fuck off out of cities and go back to where they were born. That's what I hate, my air and my airwaves being polluted by these fucking white middle class cunts. What future. It's white-ring reactionaries.

What I hate is the fake consumerism, it's people who think they're better consumers, it's so fucking arrogant. You're just a consumer like fucking everyone else. Just cos you made it yourself doesn't mean you didn't buy the fucking wool.

You're not being unfair.

I hate Laura Marling as well. And that's not just because she's a girl.

Nice rant but it's all rather myopic. Like there aren't white middle class people, born and bread in the city, who just eat this shit up. Or people of all classes, from anywhere in the country, who'll hate twee for the exact same reasons. Or middle class white boys who get overly angry about such things in an attempt to rebel.

 

[hucks]

Also, I'm not down with trendy East London these days, but I thought they were all still listening to post dubstep and riding brightly coloured bikes and weariing brightly coloured hoodies? Has the whole of Shoreditch turned into a knitting circle since I was last there?

As an arriviste Dalstonite - so much more affordable than Stoke Newington! - I feel I can chip in here. There's plenty of post dubstep day glo hoodies and plenty of knitting cricles. Loads of ridiculous moustaches and people wearing shorts with shoes. Enough for everyone!

Clearly twee goes way beyond hipster east London if John Lewis can use it in their Christmas advertising campaign, though. I should imagine the sewing shop on Columbia Road is up in arms. It's like what Skrillex did to dubstep.

 

[rubberdingyrapids]

Also has anyone complaining in this thread about middle class consumerism looked in the middle class consumerism sorry I mean 'miscellaneous' subforum of dissensus recently?

Although obviously our interest in obscure American designers and random foodie stuff is genuine and authentic whereas via our hipster-ESP we can tell that the people we look down on only like vintage stuff "because it's cool".

(prob a million videos like this on youtube)

 

[Trillhouse]

Are we suffering definition-creep again here?

To me, 'twee' refers to a fairly specific aesthetic, specifically a) Belle and Sebastian and b) bands who sound like Belle and Sebastian but without the wit. Very little of which seems to be either East London trendy or bourgeouis consumerist universal.

But here we seem to be talking about anything a bit folksy, a bit handmade, a bit sentimental and a bit wilfully shonky... which is again at risk of becoming a bit of an amorphous concept, but is perhaps more of a dominant thing than it used to be, probably as a pendulum swing against gadgety hi-tech modernism, as the combination of global recession and environmental concerns mean that middle class consumers still want to have lots of nice stuff but are a bit embarrassed about it looking shiny and hi-tech and conspicuously expensive...

NB Cath Kidston. Now that's twee.

Yes, exactly. The Arts and Craft Movement has sod all to with hipsters in East London. And there's a plethora of twee rap and r&b covers on youtube, so it's not inherently an anti urban thing either.

 

[SecondLine]

Clearly twee goes way beyond hipster east London if John Lewis can use it in their Christmas advertising campaign, though. I should imagine the sewing shop on Columbia Road is up in arms. It's like what Skrillex did to dubstep.

I know you're joking or half-joking but this is a really important point. Subcultures only really 'succeed' if they manage to reach critical mass and start infiltrating the mainstream (the vector of any cultural movement is outwards and upwards, you can't blame skream for wanting to reach bigger audiences/make more money with his music for example), but in doing so they invariably become something that the original advocates of the culture dislike/can't identify with.

I know there's a bit of blurring going on about what constitutes the 'twee' that we're hating on, but in my head it at least partly has its roots in nth generation East London folk revivalism - Laura Marling, Noah And The Whale, those Mumfords - and the ripple effect they had on British popular culture. It's obviously a 2nd (or more?) generation 'twee' compared to, say, Belle and Sebastian who I know very little about but can gather from my minimal exposure that there's something a lot more creative & considered going on.

I'm not saying there's a seed of something we'd all love at the core of it, but I think there is a distinction to be made between an originating East London micro-culture which is pretty shit and possibly ethically unconscionable but not really bothering anyone, and the much wider absorption/co-option of a twee aesthetic in advertising and other kinds of mass-consumed culture and what that absorption says about our culture. If you're talking about it as a facet of bourgeois liberalism then I'd say you're talking about the latter.

 

[hucks]

Yes, exactly. The Arts and Craft Movement has sod all to with hipsters in East London. And there's a plethora of twee rap and r&b covers on youtube, so it's not inherently an anti urban thing either.

Yeah, totally. There are lots of young middle class people in E London so there will be twee stuff but I don't think it originates there. But also take the points about how culture propogates and "succeeds" in Secondline's post. So E London becomes a shorthand for "where this stuff originates" I suppose.

Also, loving Baboon's comments here, even if I don't agree with all of them. He's on a magnificent, angry roll at the moment.