"urban:" explain the arguments against it...

[bun-u]

jungle owes as much to white brummies like doc scottQUOTE]

*splutters coffee over keyboard*

Doc Scott ain't no brummie, he's a Coventrian (we don't have icons to spare)

I'm pretty much in agreement with what Ms Dynamite said (that was shown on 'Lord of the Decks', right?)....usually when a scene get named from the outside, there's some sort of dodgy appropriation at work

 

[bassnation]

jungle owes as much to white brummies like doc scottQUOTE]

*splutters coffee over keyboard*

Doc Scott ain't no brummie, he's a Coventrian (we don't have icons to spare)

lol, sorry man - forgot about that! please accept my apologies for such a slur on the man like scott!

 

[Randy Watson]

When people insist on this stance, they'll have to acknowledge the fact that black music is made on 'white instruments', all according to their own logic (which is not mine).

Mostly Japanese instruments I would say Perhaps this could be a bold new direction for MOJO

On a more serious note, isn't most of this music is still consumed (in the UK) in the suburbs?

 

[tek tonic]

you can cut the race-baiting. 'urban' originally was a word that US radio stations used to call their emerging rap/r&b format, so they could sell advertising. it's not a euphemism for 'all black music', because they were also trying to disassociate themselves from quiet storm radio. apparently the topic gets covered in detail in Nelson George's The Death Of Rhythm And Blues - i haven't read it, but Jeff Chang says it explains.

 

[DavidD]

When Eminem first came out he was played on "alternative rock" (aka white) radio. As well as "urban."

 

[gumdrops]

i agree with pearsall and tactics completely, but at the same time, isnt black music just as oversimplified a banner as urban - i mean, people say 'black music' instead of saying jazz, blues, soul, R&B or whatever, while i prefer black instead of urban, it still seems a mass catch-all.

 

[qwerty south]

kraftwerk are one of the pulses of hip hop - from 'planet rock' to 'lose control' - they aren't black.

ice t's classic tale 'midnight' consists of a led zepplin break and a black sabbath melody.

Joss Stone, a 17-year-old soul singer from Devon, beat Dizzee Rascal, Jamelia, Lemar and The Streets to win best British urban act at the 2005 Brit Awards...

 

[dHarry]

Why do people (even African-Americans - wow, shock, Run DMC, Public Enemy, Jay-Z recording with white rock groups) forget so easily that ROCK IS BLACK MUSIC TOO, an offshoot of rhythm and blues, coming from jazz, part of the African-American slaves/blues heritage (and what a joyfully creative product of such an evil heritage) i.e. African tribal chants and scales influenced by church hymns & American country folk music (- from Europe originally? But then a lot of the Irish traditional music sounds uncannily like traditional Indian/Asian music, hence (dreadful IMHO) celtic world fusion like Afro-Celt Sound System...)

Anyway we all came from Africa originally, didn't we? ARE WE NOT ALL BLACK?

 

[shudder]

meh.. "black music" seems to be both too exclusive (since a not-insiginificant portion of "black music" is made/influenced by non-black people) and too inclusive (I'm sure there are a hell of a lot of black people who have nothing to do with hip hop, let alone UKG, etc.). Maybe you could call it "a-group-consisting-of-mostly-black-people-were-involved-with-starting-it music"?

"urban" (in North America, at least) clearly started off as a euphamism for "black", and a silly one at that (given non-suburban-made rock, most "electronic," and, hell, "classical" music is urban too). Obviously a product of white flight, etc. There's an alignment between urban/suburban and producer/consumer for more than just "black" music...

 

[gumdrops]

by the same token, a lot of urban music is made by people in the suburbs.

this idea that 'a lot of non black people make this music so it cant be black' is kinda moot really. the majority of participants and creators are still black.

 

[shudder]

maybe it would be better to call it "a black music" than simply "black music." Or better "black american" or "black UK" music.

 

[gumdrops]

i was just about to post that - i would prefer it if it was assigned a label according to where its actually come from, a la pearsall's point about food. i.e. - black american or african american music, etc.