Azealia Banks

[CrowleyHead]

Hmmm. While I can definitely see the parallels, I don't want to say that I dislike either artist out of sexism. Yes, because I don't like the fact that I'd essentially be labeled as a sexist, but also because I think there are underlying issues with both of them that actually undermine feminism. With Lana, I believe that the female archtype she embodies is actually not heroic, but a unfortunate product of misogyny, and she turns this person into a martyr. Now, whether or not she's embodied this image out of romanticism or confrontation is debatable, but I definitely interpret it as the former, and in that case, it's a very dangerous image to promote.

Azalea, I've not got the immediate focus to resolve my opinions on, but I feel like she plays with things... My best comparison, and actually really fitting, would be Kid Sister. How she was toying with class/race things in a subliminal way, but was far too stupid to understand the damage she did whilst doing these things.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

are lesbian rappers (like Yo Majesty) going on about ho this and bitch that sexist?

you can't really call it sexism if they're women. it's kind of complicated tho, b/c in one way they're recreating traditional gender roles but in another way they're also subverting them at the same time. it's a matter of contention amongst lesbians, or at least among most of the ones I've known. some are really into butch/femme, some aren't. a lot of radical lesbians during the 70s + 80s were deadset against that kind of stuff. it's not unlike the endless bitter debates among feminists about pornography + censorship. or with trans people, things like the michigan womyn's festival making a "born women only" policy. gender identity is a very thorny tangle.

+ that's this thread well + derailed...

 

[Sectionfive]

15 quid for a 25-minute show here last night.

Worth every penny apparently

 

[Ulala]

As with her 'version' of the Lone track, she's done some lyrics over a Machinedrum track. I think this one works better, largely because there's more singing than rapping (the sung part of 212 is definitely what makes it for me - after all the 'cunts' it's a refreshing 'wha?' moment and makes the reappearance of the riff more exciting).

I kind of admire her chops singing on a track which has big chunks of Aaliyah in it already, too - pretty much anyone will suffer in comparison to Aaliyah, right? She pulls it off well, I think. Youtube below, but I got a free download of it from somewhere, it's probably still available if you Google it.

 

[zhao]

you can't really call it sexism if they're women. it's kind of complicated tho, b/c in one way they're recreating traditional gender roles but in another way they're also subverting them at the same time.

if "race" and ethnicity is more (or completely) about identification with and allegiance to a particular set of social values, rather than any kind of cohesive, cut and dry difference based on biology, maybe it is also a good way of looking at Gender?

that it doesn't matter what is between your legs. that rather it is the set of beliefs you subscribe to, the ideals that you invest in, the behavior patterns you cultivate, which determines your Gender.

in this view it very possible for lesbians to be sexist...
this is probably a well articulated position within Gender Studies... i'm a total lay person when it comes to this stuff.

 

[Mercer Finn]

All the talk of pandering re. Azealia Banks made me think about Rick Ross bullshitting about his mafioso lifestyle. Which can be construed as pandering to expectations as well. But I guess he was called out on it, while Banks is being given a free ride?

I'm minded to treat the two in the same way i.e. both entirely ridiculous figures making stupidly fun pop music.

 

[baboon2004]

if "race" and ethnicity is more (or completely) about identification with and allegiance to a particular set of social values, rather than any kind of cohesive, cut and dry difference based on biology, maybe it is also a good way of looking at Gender?

that it doesn't matter what is between your legs. that rather it is the set of beliefs you subscribe to, the ideals that you invest in, the behavior patterns you cultivate, which determines your Gender.

in this view it very possible for lesbians to be sexist...
this is probably a well articulated position within Gender Studies... i'm a total lay person when it comes to this stuff.

Absolutely - many women espouse sexist views, criticising other women by placing them in male-created categories (eg the virgin-whore false (obv!) dichotomy). it's the ultimate method of control, getting people to 'police' themselves, internalise the oppression against them.

See, obviously, the various facebook comments about Chris Brown this week....

Re Rick Ross, I think as a man he's given a way easier ride. As soon as there's any suggestion whatsoever that a woman is not 'for real' in some way, then her career is pretty damaged (have to go back to Lana del Rey on this, the abuse she's been getting for having an image is unbelievable). Rick Ross was able, after a short time admittedly, to go back to being one of the biggest rappers in the game. Lana del Rey will always be 'fake' to a large number of people.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Azealia Banks made me think about Rick Ross bullshitting

rick ross is demonstrably not a drug lord, but no one here knows about her sexuality. what other claims has she made exactly? other than being from Harlem.

more generally, absolutely there are gender double standards but reckon lana del rey is a bad example. rick ross is a fake but he's his own fake, i.e. he created his own fake persona (a time honored pop tradition), whereas what really puts people off about del rey is not just that she's fake but the sense that she was invented wholecloth by a committee in a corporate boardroom.

 

[baboon2004]

it's a fair point, Ross and del Rey are not good to compare.

But if a man released such a great pop single (and there does seem to be a reasonable amount of consensus that Video Games is that), then his every move wouldn't be criticised in such a manner; he'd get a bit of a freer rein, as for example with Justin Timberlake - maybe a better point of comparison, given how his image was nurtured by others. His music was good enough to render doubters irrelevant; i think hers is too (at least, two songs are, which isn't a bad start), and God knows what she could do if she had prime-time Timbaland on side....

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

yeah but justin timberlake was always upfront about who he is from n'sync on.

also I don't care at all 1 way or the other about musical territory she's operating in but please don't tell me you're putting her in the same universe as aaliyah or ginuwine. nelly furtado-era tim maybe.

 

[baboon2004]

hmm perhaps. there's no exact comparison it seems; either way i think how she's been treated is fairly misogynist, and this has often been disguised behind the 'authenticity' criticism, which is a boring/almost entirely irrelevant one in itself.

well, no, never said i was... very few can measure up to Aailyah after all.

 

[continuum]

free UKG remix of 212

 

[rubberdingyrapids]

http://www.dummymag.com/features/20...and-what-they-say-about-rap-s-new-generation/

this is about the beef between TI/iggy azealia and AB (i dont know if its still going).

i dont see this really as a huge generation gap surfacing, though raps old generation are somewhat complacent now. as all old generations tend to be, and rap is always about overthrowing the last generation, though not as cruelly as it used to (for better/worse). i just see this as to do with younger rappers who are more mindful of the diff demographic their fans come from. asap, azealia, odd future even (though OF arent exactly anti homophobic), they know the indie rock kids that make up a lot (if not most) of their fanbase arent really too cool with stuff the rap audience has traditionally been okay with (or tolerated at least), like saying 'faggot' and casual sexism. as for AB not going the dis track route, well thats just cos beefs appear on twitter now, dis records are kinda old school and must seem like more effort.

 

[Phaedo]