the bowie thread

[baboon2004]

I just saw that I'm standing toe-to-toe with Suzanne Moore on this issue, so I lose too. Presumably A A Gill has written an article saying how Bowie grief is neither good nor bad, just to taint all bases.

You really don't like Laurie Penny, do you? I can see how some stuff she's written is rubbish, and she has the misfortune to come across annoyingly on TV (but then, so do lots of people), but I don't think she's all bad (apparently she went to my alma mater, and I can tell you, very much worse people could have been unleashed upon the world from that place...but at the same time it's hilarious how accurately LP fits a stereotype). The Burchill-Penny seems to have been going for years, now I google it.

But the award for worst columnist in the world ever must go to Camilla Long, who I only found out about via the article Droid posted and said not to read. I can see what he meant now.

And...I'm coming off as a massive misogynist. I honestly hate most male columnists too.Which reminds me - is this http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jan/09/tim-dowling-sell-out-concerts-will-wife-turn-up a real column, or just a piece of whimsical fiction? Both confusing and terrible.

 

[droid]

Regardless of her thoughts on Bowie, Burchill is an absolute pox on the arse of humanity.

Penny is occasionally right about stuff.

 

[baboon2004]

i'm with you there. I still liked Sugar Rush though - I can only presume Julie had nothing to do with the adaptation

 

[droid]

TBH, my feelings of sadness re: Bowie ARE irrational, insofar as I never followed his music when he was alive, and the fact that he's dead doesn't really effect my life in any way. Still, I do feel sad about it.

There's a whole bunch of factors here. The demographics (and professions, media, creatives, musicians, writers) of Bowie fans, the inter-generational thing, his manipulation of his image and the context and stage management of his own death.

What I have been struck by is that people who I would never describe as emotional or overwrought are getting genuinely upset, and have been very articulate about it too - everyone has some kind of personal story. Also, unlike Diana the profile of the phenomenon seems different, rather than a wave that seemed to be amplified by media as time went on, this seems more like a bomb that hit fans first with the media struggling to catch up, and the coverage seems just as widespread on blogs, SM and personal sites

 

[droid]

yeah, droid, i probably shouldn't have included angie in that "commitment" reference but did only because they were together a long time by rock-star standards. seems like the relationship with iman was better.

Fair point in general. He really cleaned up in the 80's.

If reports are true, both him and Mick Ronson died of Liver cancer.

 

[droid]

also, kate bush's death would compare at all. she's loved in the uk but not on a global level like bowie, and her artistic output and influence doesn't compare.

yeah - sorry, I just meant in terms of the intensity of feelings from her fans.

 

[baboon2004]

I'd disagree re Kate Bush's artistic output and influence on other artists - it definitely does compare. She's a genius in a similar way to him. I'd give Bowie the edge, sure, but he'd have the edge over everyone.

obvs point about Kate Bush's lower global profile among the general public is true

 

[rubberdingyrapids]

Struck by the amount of people with stories in which he comes across very well. Not the usual recently-deceased-was-also-a-lovely-bloke variety but genuinely both extraordinary and ordinary encounters people had.

i expect the more balanced/critical tributes will come in a few weeks/months. but right now, its all about how what a genuinely lovely man he was, how he was the avatar for outsiders everywhere, how he was a great actor (not sure about this one) and basically how bowie = everything great about britain/culture/music/art/everything ever.

is this http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...l-wife-turn-up a real column, or just a piece of whimsical fiction? Both confusing and terrible.

the saturday guardian magazine columnists are everything people take the piss out of the guardian for.

anyway, i found this the other day -

i like how weird that sound he had in the late 70s actually still is. i also like how he somehow actually looks quite happy and in good health performing, for all the stuff people write about that period.

 

[droid]

i like how weird that sound he had in the late 70s actually still is. i also like how he somehow actually looks quite happy and in good health performing, for all the stuff people write about that period.

He was more or less clean by that point - or had come out of the worst of the coke period at least.

 

[droid]

Posited meanings for blackstar thus far:

Named after an Elvis tune about death
A type of cancer lesion
The Alchemic 'Sol Niger' "The black sun is used to illuminate the dissolution of the body, a blackening of matter"

 

[Mr. Tea]

You really don't like Laurie Penny, do you?

She says, apparently with a straight face, that we could do away with sexism once and for all if only we all addressed each other as "xe" instead of "he" or "she", and then decides that the only reason anyone could have for being outraged about the mass sex attacks in Koln over NYE is - sigh - "racism". I mean seriously, change the fucking record, love.

Then there's the hysterical (in both senses) anti-jock rant she goes on every time there's a major international sports competition, that just makes her come across like a stroppy, self-regarding adolescent goth.

Honestly, she sometimes sounds like a right-wing troll doing a ludicrous OTT parody of a stereotypical "loony lefty".

Sorry. Back to Bowie...

 

[droid]

i expect the more balanced/critical tributes will come in a few weeks/months...

Considering his legendary promiscuity, id say there'll be some very juicy stories in the months to come. Maybe even the Jagger rumour will finally be confirmed or denied.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Also, unlike Diana the profile of the phenomenon seems different, rather than a wave that seemed to be amplified by media as time went on, this seems more like a bomb that hit fans first with the media struggling to catch up, and the coverage seems just as widespread on blogs, SM and personal sites

Is it too obvious to point out that 'social media' as such (other than, what, IRC?) didn't exist in 1997...?

 

[rubberdingyrapids]

cant really disagree with that julie burchill piece. i wonder what the reaction would have been like if he (or any famous person really) died in a pre-social media time, before 'being part of the conversation' became so paramount, or before there was the drive for more and more content (which is good for multiple perspectives, but can also drown out perspectives). the net can convince you that youre sad (or that you should be... need to be.... that it is a desirable/CORRECT response) even when youre not or dont want to be.

 

[droid]

cant really disagree with that julie burchill piece. i wonder what the reaction would have been like if he (or any famous person really) died in a pre-social media time, before 'being part of the conversation' became so paramount, or before there was the drive for more and more content (which is good for multiple perspectives, but can also drown out perspectives). the net can convince you that youre sad (or that you should be... need to be.... that it is a desirable/CORRECT response) even when youre not or dont want to be.

I think the point I was trying to make is that I reckon a lot of the reaction would be the same even if the fans had been locked in their bedrooms when they heard the news.

 

[baboon2004]

She says, apparently with a straight face, that we could do away with sexism once and for all if only we all addressed each other as "xe" instead of "he" or "she", and then decides that the only reason anyone could have for being outraged about the mass sex attacks in Koln over NYE is - sigh - "racism". I mean seriously, change the fucking record, love.

Then there's the hysterical (in both senses) anti-jock rant she goes on every time there's a major international sports competition, that just makes her come across like a stroppy, self-regarding adolescent goth.

Honestly, she sometimes sounds like a right-wing troll doing a ludicrous OTT parody of a stereotypical "loony lefty".

Sorry. Back to Bowie...

I agree I've derailed by bringing up Burchill, so back to Bowie. But quickly - xe sounds weird but did she actually say it could do away with sexism? I just read it as support of gender-neutral language, and thought she has a point.

Re Koln, maybe we've read different stuff, but in what I read her point was fine. She did def say "Why can't we always take sexual assault as seriously as we do when migrants and Muslims are involved as perpetrators?", which is a more than fair question as long as you take the sexual assaults that DID happen very seriously. Racism was certainly involved in the reaction of SOME people to what happened in Koln (and in what I read, LP called out the right-wing press specifically), but obviously not in the fact of the condemnation of the men who assaulted those women (who should be found and prosecuted, obvs), but rather in the fact that this kind of condemnation is not always forthcoming for ALL those guilty of sexual assaults. Which I took to be what LP was saying.

But by all means I'm not defending stuff of hers that I haven't read, so maybe she did say something dubious elsewhere. But in what I read her position seemed OK: "So let me be clear: sexual violence is never, ever acceptable. Not for cultural reasons. Not for religious reasons. Not because the perpetrators are really angry and disenfranchised. There can be no quarter for systemic misogyny." http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ter-cologne-we-cant-let-bigots-steal-feminism

The sports stuff is silly, yep.

 

[droid]

Is it too obvious to point out that 'social media' as such (other than, what, IRC?) didn't exist in 1997...?

And dont forget:

 

[baboon2004]

how i loved teletext.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Fuck, Alan Rickman has just died too!

How many more well-loved 69-year-old British celebrities is cancer going to claim this week? Gah!

 

[baboon2004]

Sad and also strange - as you say, Rickman also inspired a level of affection (judging by the reactions of [particularly female] friends) that can't be explained simply by the body of work he's been responsible for.

On that basis, Tim Curry must be worried.