luka

Well-known member
there's a hollow feeling the internet is good at leaving you with. it's not exclusive to the internet,
it's really just the feeling of being emotionally manipulated and then abandoned. a program like 'friends'
generates the same effect. and contemporary pop does that a lot.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
yeah, but again im not talking about what music is good or what i find compelling.
im really just talking about places where i see the historical moment expressed in
its manifestations and products. it's precisely becasue i dont like that music
and in fact often feel a sense of dystopian doom and despair when i hear it that
i think it is so expressive of the times. it doesn't seem remotely 'real' but the
real is not something i associate with the 20tens

oh, well, i try and consciously avoid that music as much as possible these days tbh. whenever i hear post malone on the radio i get so agitated i want to commit a gun massacre and even accept my mum will get caught in the crossfire (and she is the best person in the world, to me...)

I've kind of regressed to an atomised escapism. which is bad in its own right but that's better than the alternative.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
i know people on the internet who get a kick out of listening to what they consider shit or whatever. i can't really do that habitually. if i don't like something at all the first time i hear it i'll never listen to it again. if there's something however tiny, on first listen, I'll bookmark/save/download it. i have already been suicidal for the past 6 years on an almost daily basis so if i put myself through that i'd get even more depressed.
 

luka

Well-known member
im not getting a kick out of anything!!!!!!!!!!!!
it's not about like/dislike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
im not recommending or advocating music here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
honestly. beleive me. it's a different thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

CrowleyHead

Well-known member
whenever i hear post malone on the radio i get so agitated i want to commit a gun massacre and even accept my mum will get caught in the crossfire (and she is the best person in the world, to me...)

Oh man you're genuinely more depressed about this stuff than you let on.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
I’m probably misunderstanding all this again, but.

It’s worth having a think about how this all compares to previous eras. Thirdform is right to talk about the mode of production. Dematerialisation and the fear of what it is doing to us echoes the post war moral panics about rock n roll, cinema, theatre. And the fears about speed and urbanisation in the industrial revolution.

I’m sure there were folk songs about the latter. But i’m not sure what the music referenced on this thread tells us because I, like most people, haven’t heard it.

The political aspect to this is to get people to produce or consume digital value for as much of the day as possible. Literally like extending your shift in a factory and then going late night shopping in a mall.
 

luka

Well-known member
I’m probably misunderstanding all this again, but.

It’s worth having a think about how this all compares to previous eras. Thirdform is right to talk about the mode of production. Dematerialisation and the fear of what it is doing to us echoes the post war moral panics about rock n roll, cinema, theatre. And the fears about speed and urbanisation in the industrial revolution.

I’m sure there were folk songs about the latter. But i’m not sure what the music referenced on this thread tells us because I, like most people, haven’t heard it.

The political aspect to this is to get people to produce or consume digital value for as much of the day as possible. Literally like extending your shift in a factory and then going late night shopping in a mall.

ok i will do two things. i will have one last stab at explaining what i mean but i will also admit defeat and allow the marxists to develop their ideas. take up these trajectories and see where they lead. why not? it will be an interesting conversation in its own right albeit not the one i wanted to have.
 

luka

Well-known member
maybe you've heard me say (i repeat myself a lot)

the component energies of the instant are present in every one of its manifestations. this is the basis of all divination.

that understanding is the basis for this thread. does that make sense?
 

luka

Well-known member
so what i am saying is look at the manifestations as though they were a series of tarot cards.

what do the tarot cards of contemporary music say?

what do the tarot cards of modern manners say?

what are the tarot cards of architecture and town planning revealing?

what do the tarot cards of film making and television tell us?

what do the tarot cards of design and fashion tell us?

and so on and so forth. this is not to deny that there are political implications nor am i declaring myself to be beyond all aesthetic judgements and aesthetic values. i just wanted to shift the focus away from those things and ask, what is this doing to us? what is it doing to the things we produce and how, in turn, are the things we produce affecting us? that feedback loop that creates the future.
 

luka

Well-known member
I’m sure there were folk songs about the latter. But i’m not sure what the music referenced on this thread tells us because I, like most people, haven’t heard it.

The political aspect to this is to get people to produce or consume digital value for as much of the day as possible. Literally like extending your shift in a factory and then going late night shopping in a mall.

so what i categorically don't want is songs, folk or otherwise, about the process. that is the last thing i want. i want to hear those processes as materialised in the products. NOT reflexively.

and let me illustrate what i mea by using the last paragraph as an example.
from the consumers point of view the internet is facilitating a return (while we are not at work ourselves!) to a kind of simulacrum of slave societies. becasue we are minimising friction and wait time.
that is when we want to fulfill a desire to be entertained, or to own a product, we dont need to move. we click our fingers and it is there. whether it is a vacuum cleaner or the new song by the latest pop-nymphet. that is our experience of the internet.

now looked at from the political angle (which is real, shouldnt be ignored, is, as always, tragic)
none of this is frictionless any more than slavery is frictioneless. it depends on amazon warehouse workers, it depends on courier drivers, it depends on apple's chinese suicide factories, africas rare earth mines and so on and so forth. I AM NOT AND WOULD NEVER DENY OR GLOSS OVER THESE REALITIES PLS BELEIVE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there is a material basis to our immaterial experience)

but the extent to which this hidden underbelly will be audible in our music is, i think, minimal. what i expect to be audible is the frictionless aspect, and the shrinking of the time-lag between fulfilment and desire and CORRESPONDINGLY
the frustration and confusion when the most important desires are not undergoing the same process. sex and love and friendship and understanding etc etc etc are as hard as ever to come by.
this i expect to be able to see and hear in the products of our socieities.

does that make sense?

the repressed is there. it exists. but it is hidden in windowless warehouse. it is THE REPRESSED! the material substrate is swept under the carpet. it would be interesting to try and catch peeks of it but the whole nature of the repressed is that it is hidden out of sight.
 
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luka

Well-known member
i was asking about front of house. not denying there is a back of house. but perhaps you are right. perhaps both things need to be considered simultaneously. not just look at the new bloomberg building on cannon street as architecture but consider who is cleaning the offices. maybe we need to do both things at once.

but again, my focus, the thrust of the investigation, was front of house and what front of house tells us.
 
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john eden

male pale and stale
Well. Ahem.

I'm not interested in divination.

I don't think it adds anything sensible to the useful question of "what is this doing to us?".

That's probably the gap between us, which I am happy to gesticulate over with a smile.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
I’m sure there were folk songs about the latter. But i’m not sure what the music referenced on this thread tells us because I, like most people, haven’t heard it.

The political aspect to this is to get people to produce or consume digital value for as much of the day as possible. Literally like extending your shift in a factory and then going late night shopping in a mall.


 

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
There's no soul left. The people presented to us as soul artists sound like bad quotations - Adele's fried vocals. It's not like she's really singing about anything. Music by numbers. A distinct lack of anything that feels truly real. The internet is like the hunters blade sticking out of the ice, dipped in blood, and we're the hungy wolves lapping away thinking we're getting a meal. If the planet lasts long enough we're going to look back at now and wonder why we didn't at least try to stop it. Biggest head fuck in history. We all feel it on some level. But there's nowhere to direct our frustration, so we end up taking it out on eachother, further isolating ourselves and digging in to our personally curated realities. At least it's safe there...

The more virtual we consume. The more virtual we become. Our souls require the real™. Computer generated whatever just doesn't hit us the way physical, human generated whatever does. The less human input into the whatever, the less we will feel in response. I'm not buying that it's all subjective. And yeah, a lot of what I listen to is made on a computer, but the shit that matters cleary has more soul put into it. I can't define what that means, but my soul knows it when it feels it.
 
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