Cultural Cowardice

[sadmanbarty]

d-beat: cultural cowardice?

discuss.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

i've answered this question twice already in this thread

I meant an actual answer, not a rehash of the collective consciousness dodge

undoubtedly it exists - albeit difficult to quantify - but ultimately you have to assign tangible responsibility

barty started off specifically asking about mechanics - cultures are made up of people - nothing just happens, people make decisions

if you want the discussion to only be allusive that's fine but it's a different discussion

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

as usual John Eden was talking sense to begin with

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

whoever it is who adds the cheeky tags, add luka is a crypto-jungian

 

[luka]

padraig, you're either going to catch up and at that point be able to become a productive contributor, or you're going to just be an impediment and a bore. i can't imagine there's much pleasure to be found in pursuing the latter course so why not try and catch up? we're not that far ahead of you. just a step across the next threshold.

see you on the other side.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

d-beat: cultural cowardice?

dead end, definitely

cowardice - it's hard to say what the retreat is from

it's not really a retreat - it's a hardening of sonic-aesthetic position

punk is sonically reactionary but emotionally-psychically liberating

post-punk pursues that liberation sonically

hardcore pursues the other side while distilling the sonics into ever harder, purer form quickly - within a decade - culminating in grindcore, power violence, etc

and then the last 25+ years has been rehashing, occasionally cross-pollinated with noise

it's the opposite of fwd - no one needs to hear anything beyond Discharge's canonical records, the first Napalm Death LP, etc

*continuing on from further theorizing downthread - there's very little cultural capital to expend - hardcore immediately scrubbed the blues from punk, as thrash and then death metal did from Sabbath and NWOBHM, so there's basically no engagement with black music (aside from the very rare odd case like the Big Boys) - and then after that it's just taking it to its logical extremes

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

padraig, you're either going to catch up and at that point be able to become a productive contributor, or you're going to just be an impediment and a bore. i can't imagine there's much pleasure to be found in pursuing the latter course so why not try and catch up? we're not that far ahead of you. just a step across the next threshold.

see you on the other side.

to quote someone earlier in the thread, fuck off

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

anyway, continuing what I was saying

there's a cowardice in never having an impulse to progress

hardcore is like dudes who fetishize old blues 78s or whatever, except there are still people making new records that sound exactly like them

it's comforting in its way - you can tune in at any point and it's always the same thing

so a different cowardice from retreating, but probably cowardice, yes

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

actually definitely cowardice in the sense you guys mean

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

why are you acting as a blockage to the circulation of ideas and conversation? what is your motivation? examine the situation as a whole and you're part in that

heal thyself, you pretentious warbler

also, fuck off

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

you're at your worst when you start taking your guru schtick literally

 

[luka]

i'll let you think about it and calm down. i've got lots of things i have to do today, unusually.
have a good think about how you can make a positive contribution. show us your best side. i'll come back this evening and you'll have found a new vantage point and i won't need to wind you up like this any more.

 

[sadmanbarty]

glam rock: cultural cowardice?

discuss.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

no worries my man

I respect your trip pretending to be philosopher-king of your little hermit kingdom

it's always a bit sad when mystics start believing their own hype but I suppose it's a job hazard

like Eden said - just be honest about it

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

you/barty misspelled Anakin, btw

 

[sadmanbarty]

that was me. poor old c3po just trying to avoid confrontation.

 

[luka]

had a think. one expression of frustration was enough. i shouldnt have kept needling you and winding you up. that was counterproductive. so i deleted the other ones and left the first one.

 

[sadmanbarty]

well done luke.

disco by rock acts: cultural bravery?

discuss.

 

[sadmanbarty]

madchester: brazen cultural cowardice?

discuss.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

these things happen once in a while - rather the intermittent healthy fires to clear out the underbrush than the mass conflagration

I think not only it is an equally interesting conversation - how these things happen in the world - cultural production is power, and whether a discussion acknowledges it or not, these cowardices exist in that context of cultural power structures but you can't discuss them separately - the tangible mechanics (materialism) and the collective conscious - or at least you can't arrive anywhere fruitful without discussing the whole. so I brought it up because it seems fundamental to the question you're asking. taking "I already answered" to mean "we're not interested in answering that question here" - OK. it's just a less meaningful conversation without that.

not trying to impede anything - psychedelic everything I'm all for it - just also interested in the material - someone has to write things, make music, manufacture the drugs, sell/consume all these things - how, why