josef k

[thirdform]

anyway, i started a thread about that. some sad old men can wallow here, personally the giggly type is a huge turn off for me.

But yeah I hope Nina gets a job soon. unemployed life is shit.

That being said the whole composit division of penis = men and vagina = women sex class is mysticism not materialism in the extreme. so i can't say i have any traction with the trajectory of where UK feminism is going, it was always a smug ideology for middle class white women to browbeat brown women into being terrified of talking to them, I've noticed this numerous times but am not going to go into it here.

Gender bending is pretty standard in the middle east though of course with the introduction of colonialism it was one of the symptoms blamed for the decline of islamic civilisation by intellectuals. a reminder that intellectuals hold no special elevated position over us.

I also don't really understand why trans exclusionary radical feminists think terf is a slur, to me it's very accurate, surely if they had the courage of their convictions they would say 'yes im terf and i'm proud?' but clearly they don't, they're just looking for careerist opportunities to fuck over their class brothers and sisters.

 

[luka]

I don't like this guilt by association type thing. I mean, she appeared on a video with two mildly annoying dickheads, what does that have to do with her music writing? As far as I know she didn't say anything overtly racist or beyond the pale in another way so it seems weird.

Given no one can bear to watch the video (cos of the two lads) no one is totally sure what thought crimes were committed. It's probably driven by the trans thing isn't it? I don't really understand all that stuff. I get a bit confused by it. It's the one issue I'd feel wary about thinking through it openly because its so inflammatory. Usually I'll just steam in anywhere regardless of whether I know what I'm talking about or not.

The stuff about place, ritual, symbol, obviously I'm interested in. It's part of my remit as a famous poet.

 

[IdleRich]

I hope this comes to something

This is a public announcement! Tired of anonymous attacks, disingenuous misreadings, cowardly and nameless accusations, I hereby challenge the author/s of the Open Letter against me, posted here https://write.as/7v8fbjq9ekoaxl3z and signed by something called the 'Anti-Reaction Research Group (ARRG)' to a PUBLIC DEBATE with me! The same invitation goes for the authors of the Twitter account 'TerfsOutOfArt' (https://twitter.com/TERFsOutOfArt), who may or may not be the SAME PEOPLE!!! If you have the courage of your convictions, come clean! Be bold in your identities! We can hold a PUBLIC DISCUSSION in Burgess Park, South East London, next Saturday 11th May, 2pm. EVERYONE IS INVITED. I will pay for your train ticket/s! If anyone knows or suspects the identity of the authors of the Open Letter and/or the 'Terfs' Twitter account, please feel free to alert the individuals concerned to my PUBLIC CHALLENGE! This will be EPIC!

She has got a pretty good point about the anonymity thing. Not just pretty good in fact, inarguable I'd say.

 

[luka]

Yeah I mean anonymity is justified if your safety would be endangered otherwise but that's clearly not the case here. And Maybe Diggedity Derek will return to the forum and explain why he sacked Nina.

John are you going to the park to debate? It could be quite an ugly spectacle actually. I hope there's some adults there to stop people getting overexcited.

 

[droid]

..

 

[luka]

Well I guess that's the set up.... sort of....
I won't go. Too silly for me.

 

[IdleRich]

Yeah I mean anonymity is justified if your safety would be endangered otherwise but that's clearly not the case here.

They might be hunted down by deathsquads of not-quite-left-enough academics. Still, you guys are premature talking about going, I don't think they have accepted it yet so it may not happen.

 

[luka]

I thought it was an open invitation just sit there, ready to discuss anything with anyone. I like that idea. It's a conversation space. This little patch of dogshit grass and dust. Just don't get over excited and don't take yourself too seriously.

I sometimes used to turn up at a take all comers football session in a park in Plaistow. It's utopian. Similar thing.

 

[luka]

Get off the Internet. My poetry thing would be more like that ideally but I prioritise making money tbh. I can't spend all day chatting.

 

[IdleRich]

I read it as a specific challenge to the people behind the anonymous attacks on her. Though I guess anyone could rock up and claim to be them.

 

[luka]

Debates per se are pretty gross. A competitive sport for people who are shit at sport. But conversation is the best.

 

[IdleRich]

Well probably yeah. I mean, I never understood those schools who have a debate team and they go and have a moderated argument or something with another school and someone wins. But the wider point, that the people have written an "open letter" slagging her off (and accusing her of being sympathetic to some Turkish neonazi group or something) are totally hidden and thus she is prevented from properly replying and defending or justifying herself, is fair surely?

 

[luka]

Yeah

 

[luka]

Or tricking them into coming to the park and then having a physical fight with fists knees elbows etc

 

[IdleRich]

Or tricking them into coming to the park and then having a physical fight with fists knees elbows etc

The perfect trap

 

[droid]

Or, of course advertising your location in advance and making yourself a target to anyone who wishes you harm.

 

[luka]

Well this is why I hope there's responsible adults around. Ones with actual muscles.

 

[craner]

I'd love to watch a scrap between Goldsmiths students, alumni and/or staff! Partly because nobody would actually get physically hurt.

 

[Nina]

I'm back. I posted the public debate thing in order to point out that the people losing me work are doing so anonymously and that they should have the courage to admit who they are. But now I think we should just go ahead and have a public discussion with whoever turns up. I'm not very committed to the public school debate model, but I am committed to free association and discussion, and I much prefer talking to people face-to-face, so I quite like the idea. I don't think whoever wrote the open letter or the 'terfs' account will come clean, but whoever wants to come along could do. I don't think anyone will attack me, but if they do that's on them. Perhaps I've been driven mad by all the pretty upsetting consequences of all this, but I think the face-to-face might ne a good idea, or at least it'll be something f-ing different from the relentless faceless emails and denunciations and seeing people I know write shitty things. I'll turn up anyway. Perhaps Daniel will some along too. I'm sick of lies and mispresentations. people can come at me in person.

 

[droid]

Id advise against it, but if you must, be very careful. Bring people who can physically defend you.